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  • Thomas Paine’s Corner (TPC), founded on March 10, 2005 by Jason Miller, is dedicated to ending the unnecessary suffering of oppressed and exploited sentient beings and to the total liberation of human animals, nonhuman animals, and the Earth. While TPC is eclectic, holistic, and open to different perspectives, it approaches anti-capitalism and total liberation from an essentially anarcho-veganist position, as portrayed in the graphic above by the juxtaposition of the Boy Scout--a victim of one of the indoctrinating mechanisms for our imperialist, patriarchal, faux Christian, corporatist, statist, speciesist society--against the anarchist symbol, which represents democracy, decentralization, mutually respectful individual sovereignty, egalitarianism, direct action, and mutual aid.

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Pacifism or Animals: Which Do You Love More? A Critique of Lee Hall, Friends of Animals, and the Franciombe Effect in the New Abolitionist Movement

Posted by thomaspainescorner on February 7, 2009

Driven by his profound love of animals, Paul Watson is perhaps the ultimate animal defender…..

By Steven Best and Jason Miller

2/6/09

“I am one of those who believe that it is the mission of this war to free every non-human animal in the United States. I am one of those who believe that we should consent to no peace which shall not be an Abolition peace. I am, moreover, one of those who believe that the work of animal liberationists will not have been completed until all the sentient beings of the Earth, shall have been admitted, fully and completely, into the moral circle of humanity. I look upon speciesism as going the way of all the earth. It is the mission of the war to put it down.” —revision of a quote by MLK

Malcolm X once said, “I don’t favor violence. If we could bring about recognition and respect of our people by peaceful means, well and good. Everybody would like to reach his objectives peacefully. But I’m also a realist. The only people in this country who are asked to be nonviolent are black people.”

Fast forward four decades and the same rings true for animal rights people.

Huntingdon Life Sciences (HLS), one of the world’s largest animal testing companies, is notorious for extreme animal abuse (torturing and killing 500 animals a day) and manipulated research data. To test everything from toothpaste and floor cleaners to Big Pharma drug concoctions, HLS mercilessly tortures and murders millions of dogs, rabbits, primates, rodents, and pigs each year. As evidence of senseless brutality for profit, on numerous occasions employees have been caught on tape punching beagle dogs in the face, dissecting live monkeys, and other barbarities. 1

Yet despite its malevolence, Huntingdon reported revenues of $127.6 million for the first six months of 2008, an increase of 13.4% over the same period in 2007. Although HLS may be more hindered by SHAC’s efforts than its glowing press releases reveal, it still maintains its despicable existence. Meanwhile six members of SHAC USA, a group dedicated to shutting down HLS through publicity campaigns and direct action, were given stiff prison sentences for the “crime” of running a website that provided information enabling other activists to engage in intimidation and property damage against HLS and its business partners. In a world dominated by speciesism and capitalism, an entity that has inflicted abject misery upon millions of sentient beings over the years operates with impunity and reaps economic reward for its violence. Meanwhile, defenders of those with no voice were imprisoned for acts of compassion.

Vivisectors, animal researchers, factory farmers, furriers, and their ilk condemn their victims– living beings who feel and suffer, just as we humans do– to a life that is so “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short” it would have appalled even Thomas Hobbes. Socially conditioned to believe that we are the master species, most people condone the exploitation of animals “for the good of humanity.” Others apathetically look the other way. Some, however, opt to oppose this abomination with tactics appropriate to the evils inflicted on animals, and yet they are as scorned by many in the animal advocacy movement in the same language and tone that one finds in the discourse of the FBI and SHAC’s prosecutors.

Like Good Germans

“Our complex global economy is built upon millions of small, private acts of psychological surrender, the willingness of people to acquiesce in playing their assigned parts as cogs in the great social machine that encompasses all other machines. They must shape themselves to the prefabricated identities that make efficient coordination possible… that capacity for self-enslavement must be broken.” Theodore Roszak

Ironically, the relatively few animal defenders who carry out the struggle against the monstrous animal-industrial complex through militant direct action (MDA), such as property destruction and liberating caged animals, often find that animal exploiters are not their only opponents. In a perverse twist, a surprisingly large number of people whom the casual observer would assume to be allied with direct activists often align themselves with animal oppressors in their rush to show they “reach across the aisle,” “remain civil,” “work within the system,” and above all, “adhere to non-violence.” They become perfect puppets of the corporate-state complex.

Consider Judith Marie Gansen, a politically correct, beautifully brainwashed, and suitably subdued animal advocate, who pondered how best to serve the animals at a time when so much illegal activism prompted animal exploitation industries to pressure Congress to pass the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, a notorious law that criminalizes a wide range of formerly legal pressure tactics and goes so far as to characterize these tactics as “terrorism.” Fleeing from the likes of SHAC, and running into the comforting arms of the state, Gansen obligingly says:

As for myself, I will continue to respond to writing alerts I receive from my favorite, legal animal organizations. I will continue to make respectful phone calls and emails and do letters to the editor to educate people and change policy and convince lawmakers that our cause is a just cause–and this will all be done without harassing anyone. I will avoid shopping where my dollar spent will harm any animal and will participate in legal boycotts.

I will strive to be a better informed animal advocate to be certain I know the limits of the law and follow them. I will live my life as cruelty-free as possible to set an example for others. My way may take a little [!] longer, but I truly believe that the change that this brings will be the lasting change that we need, and more importantly, that animals need. 2

One can stop wondering why the animal advocacy movement is losing the fight, as meat consumption skyrockets, animal exploitation increases exponentionally, the sixth great species extinction crisis rapidly accelerates, and the planetary ecosystem irrevocably comes undone. Couple Gansen’s dogmatic adherence to declawed and defanged “socially acceptable” forms of activism with her conclusion that, “the effect of some alleged ‘animal terrorists’ in recent years is that laws are now on the books that may be used against people who trespass on land to get real evidence that is needed to put someone in jail,” and it becomes apparent that Gansen is a clone of Lee Hall, the consummate smug bourgeois liberal, loathe to break the law or directly challenge capitalism.

Hall, a former adjunct law professor at Rutgers, legal director of Friends of Animals, and protégé of fellow lawyer and animal rights advocate Gary Francione, is an unwavering pacifist who believes the war against animals can be won by converting the world to veganism (a 2006 Harris poll determined that 1.4% of the US population was vegan—we’re almost there!). Hall epitomizes the loyal opposition that has sustained the rancid and ruthless capitalist system throughout its history.

In two of Hall’s many woefully misguided jeremiads against militant direct action, she arrogantly dismisses the risk, loss, suffering, and value of those who have dared to give wholesale animal murderers and torturers a tiny taste of their own medicine. 3 Rather than recognizing their courageous efforts as an integral part of a revolutionary struggle for animal liberation, she demonizes direct activists, scapegoats them for draconian laws protecting the animal industrial complex, and leaves readers with the impression that the movement would be light years ahead without groups such as the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and SHAC.

What Hall, her allies, acolytes, and drone-like followers fail to emphasize is that in a capitalist “democracy,” the courts, state, and legal system serve the interests of corporations. While her assertion that the Bush administration and Congress (part and parcel of the “power elite” that C. Wright Mills identified and dissected) enacted the AETA because direct action poses a real and immediate economic threat to the lucrative animal exploitation industries is true, Hall misses the more significant fact that this is a welcome indication that the animal rights movement is shaking some foundations, and crossing the Rubicon of intense state repression is often a necessary stage for any rights or justice struggle that has the potential to succeed. For the state rarely lifts a finger to stop ineffectual forms of dissent, such as animal rights activists who do nothing but chant and hold signs outside of research laboratories. Thus, the provisional absence of such legislation hardly indicates successful tactics. Moreover, the original version of the AETA, the “Animal Enterprise Protection Act,” became law in 1992, 8 years before the SHAC movement crossed the Atlantic into the US, and so one could just as easily argue that it was legal and peaceful tactics that were the catalyst for state repression. In fact, any significant challenge to animal exploitation — legal or illegal, aboveground or underground – will provoke a harsh state response. So the question is not how to avoid state repression but how to break through it, using a variety of effective tactics without hindering the movement by fundamentalist fallacies and pacifist dogmas. 4

Thus, once activists break with tired forms of protest and find more creative ways to truly threaten the economic interests of exploiters and even the capital supply to an entire nation (as SHAC and other liberationists did in England), then corporations and governments will rise like a sleeping dragon and belch fire in a serious counter-attack. While Hall and her followers may believe the myth that we can do battle with the corporate-state monster peacefully and that “peaceful” tactics alone can defeat violence, intelligent animal liberationists recognize that if they turn the other cheek, animal-exploiters will slap them down like rag dolls. They recognize that time has grown too short to move at the snail’s pace afforded by peaceful resistance, that the rapidly worsening ecological crisis does not allow the long march through the state and the plate and that we have but moments to effect radical change and to topple the dominionist paradigm informing nearly all human thought, none greater than the Western bankers and timber, mining, agriculture, and biotechnology corporations.

While many non-violent, legal tactics are often necessary and useful to advance animal liberation, they are impotent without being supplemented by radical direct action, as they pose no immediate threat to the global capitalist system that enables the moneyed elite to prey upon billions of non-human (and human) animals each year to fuel growth and profits. CEO’s don’t lose much sleep over a student petition campaign, a weekly vegan outreach program downtown, or a Sunday potluck dinner with a vegan speaker, as these efforts barely break past 1% of the US population. But exploiters do suffer nightmares when they themselves come under attack and realize there is a real possibility that their property could catch fire or their bloody businesses could be brought down by a gas can and a match.

As powerful and effective as Martin Luther King and his followers were with their non-violent approach, institutionalized racism would exist even more today were it not for the militant presence and tactics of Malcolm X and the Black Panthers. Just as the power elite spawned COINTELPRO in reaction to the emerging social movements of the 1960s, so forty years later they enacted the AETA to squelch the successful tactics of groups like the ALF and SHAC. In short, they are afraid. And that is a good thing. Let them tremble in with some scintilla of the fear they inflict on their animal victims.

We need the largest and most systemic and inclusive vision and strategy possible, one that fears no consequence of logic and is attuned to historical precedents. We need the most uncompromising, militant form of politics we can muster or we shall all just be washed away by the tsunami of corporate repression and buried by the chaos and violence of ecological disaster rumbling on the horizon.

Yet pseudo-abolitionist peacenik posers in the movement like Lee Hall, Gary Francione, and Bob Torres – those who dilute, distort, deny, and diminish the power and pluralist tactics used by the original abolitionist movement in the 19th century — along with feeble welfarists such as Erik Marcus and soma peddlers like Will Tuttle, severely diminish the chances of realizing the powerful vision that uncompromisingly fought human slavery by any means necessary. If Hall’s pitifully anemic approach to assailing the animal exploitation industry were the only problem she presented, we could dismiss her as another innocuous, or even tad-bit helpful pacifist.

However, just as the academic community has learned to pay attention to rightwing extremist David Horowitz — a wolf in sheep’s clothing who persistently attempts to muzzle radical and dissenting voices in the name of “fairness, balance, and diversity” — those who truly desire the abolition of animal exploitation and speciesism need to sit up and take notice of the faux-abolitionists, the fundamentalist pacifist, the outright collaborationist approach of Hall, Francione, and others, who feel more comfortable with animal exploiters than true animal liberators.

Collaborationists in the Churchyard

“We are a violent species, and we always solve our problems with violence. There have been no exceptions. Nonviolent victories are a myth. Force has always prevailed. The independence of India was not achieved by Gandhi alone; there was a violent insurgency going on against the British at the same time. Gandhi utilized nonviolence as a tactic against the self-righteous British for the purpose of humiliating them, and it worked; whereas it would never have worked against the Nazis or Stalin’s Communist Party. Martin Luther King did not win civil rights achievements by himself; he had the help of the Black Panthers and riots in the streets. Nonviolence works as a compliment to violent action; it has never worked by itself. Violence can only be defeated by a greater force of violence or by the strategic implementation of applied violence.” Paul Watson

Lee Hall, who reveals many of her betrayals against the animal rights movement in her self-published screed, Capers in the Churchyard, is a collaborationist of the first order.

Perhaps her most insidious quality is that Hall tries to steer between the Scylla of animal welfarism and the Charybdis of militant direct action, portraying each as the key barriers to progress. Her position is that welfarists only promote reforms, never challenging the property status of animals and that MDA takes the animal rights movement off the moral high road by engaging in the very violence the movement seeks to change.

Like the ever treacherous centrists in US politics, Hall peddles a middle-of-the-road approach, minimizing conflict and ultimately playing into the avaricious grasp of the “enemy” — oops, sorry– in Hall’s Jesus/Gandhian/Kingian pacifist playbook we are supposed to “love” our “enemies” like lost brothers — by completely eliminating the option of MDA as a necessary and effective tactic. In Hall’s delusional, blue-pill world, vegan outreach and education by a relative handful of dedicated activists will eventually overcome the staggeringly powerful opposition of billions of meat-addicted speciesists and profit-hungry animal exploiters. The word “eventually” is crucial here, for while she and Gansen know that their agonizingly sluggish progress through vegan education “may take a little longer,” the question of time is absolutely crucial. Amidst this multidimensional planetary social and ecological crisis – fueled by human overpopulation, species extinction, deforestation, global warming, resource shortages, and so on – time is a luxury we don’t have. We need to fight for human, animal, and Earth liberation immediately, full-out, peddle to the metal, and by any and every means necessary.

A cursory look at the fanfare littering Internet forums and review sites shows that Capers in the Churchyard has received almost unanimous praise, with legions of fans breathlessly extolling it as “the best animal rights book ever.” This could be because it is the only animal rights book they ever read. Or because its bubble-gum flavor reinforces the pacifist illusions they picked up from Gandhi and King. Or even because it is a feel-good, Panglossian tract that lulls people into thinking that we can change the world through education and legislation, without serious levels of agitation. Yet again, it could be because those who know nothing of the history of social movements, who do not understand the complexity of social power dynamics, and who are myopically single-issue in their approach to animal rights can easily swallow Hall’s simplistic, opiate-laced nonsense that a vegan revolution will not only bring animal liberation, but will be the trigger and catalyst for social revolution in general.

Capers is not just a bad book, it is a dangerous book. Unfortunately it poses no danger to the system that tortures and murders 52 billion land animals and 90 billion marine animals each year; it is, rather, a threat to those opposing it. Hall naïvely obscures how long, hard, and difficult the struggle for animal liberation will be. She myopically and ahistorically glosses over the fact that many different kinds of social movements will have to strike back hard at systemic oppression and find ways to form powerful alliances of resistance to bring about the level of radical social transformation needed to bring this planet back from its tailspin into catastrophe. Instead, despite their occasional nods to alliance politics, she and Francione peddle single-issue and elitist fantasies that dietary transformation can spark general social transformation.

Essentialism and the Religion of Pacifism

“Pacifism is generally considered to be a morally unassailable position to take with respect to human violence. … While it can seem noble enough when the stakes are low, pacifism is ultimately nothing more than a willingness to die, and to let others die, at the pleasure of the world’s thugs. It should be enough to note that a single sociopath, armed with nothing more than a knife, could exterminate a city full of pacifists. … Here we come upon a terrible facet of ethically asymmetric warfare: when your enemy has no scruples, your own scruples become another weapon in his hand.” Sam Harris

“Here is somebody who can really think,” says sycophant Jeffrey Masson in his vegan creampuff introduction to Capers. Without embarrassment, Masson goes further to say that Hall “provides all the evidence that allows you to advance your own thinking.” If this book is a stellar example of “thinking,” the animal rights movement is in serious crisis. Far from a paradigm of thought, Capers is rather a minefield of fallacies, ranting, propaganda, ad hominems, and vulgar demagoguery. It should indeed be taught in philosophy classes – as a model of how not to think.

Gansen provides an example of the arrogance and idiocy that Hall’s Capers is sowing and validating when she writes, “Keep in mind that the worst incidents from those claiming to be animal activists did not happen inside the U.S. and these incidents are not part of the legitimate animal rights movement.”

Capers in the Churchyard is replete with this type of dogmatic, patronizing, and arrogant attitude based on a tendentious essentializing of the meaning of “animal rights.” Hall and her minions define animal rights ex cathedra as if theirs is the only “true” moral philosophy and praxis and everything else is reformist or extremist. They employ this Platonic platitude to enshrine their doctrine as eternal truth. Make no mistake about it. Hall and Francione view themselves as messiahs and expect nothing less than parroting the party line from their loyal adherents and apparatchiks. When did vanity, egoism, competitiveness, and megalomania become vegan values?

Consider even more from Hall and her fellow Franciombes at FoA: “Above all, the key change is diet, for it is absurd to discuss the rights of animals as we eat them. The vegetarian movement employs the most direct action of all.” 5

Diet is THE most direct action of all? THE key? THE One Way? Based on what criteria? We agree that veganism is a profound form of direct action and that vegan outreach and education are important indeed, but to call it THE most direct action of all? The hubris in this statement rivals the arrogance in Hall’s notion that her concept of animal rights is THE concept divined by her alone. We were under the impression that the ALF and similar groups engaged in some extremely successful and important direct actions on behalf of animals. But apparently in Lee Hall’s world, theirs are simply the actions of terrorists and therefore, in Stalinist fashion, just erased from history.

In Capers, as in all her work, Hall grossly caricatures the direct action movement with distorted portraits and propaganda that often exceed the criticism of noxious industry front groups such as the Center for Consumer Freedom. With nary a nuance in sight, she dismisses groups like the ALF and SHAC as all “coercive” or “criminal” and as never having made any contributions to the movement because they have violated her dogmatic adherence to non-violence.

Is she opposed also to the Boston Tea Party? To the sabotage tactics of suffragettes? To the ANC? To the anti-Nazi resistance movement? The latter is a paradigmatic counter to pacifism, and has to be taken on by absolutistic critics of violence. But in Capers Hall only raises the question to dismiss it in cryptic terms, and in one paragraph at that! The question remains, and troubles her simplistic black-and-white, this-or-that, either-or worldview. Like Hall, animal rights philosopher Tom Regan defines the sabotage perpetrated by direct activists as violence, but he at least considers cases where violence is potentially necessary and legitimate. 6

The Stench of Hypocrisy

“People often say that violence accomplishes nothing, that it’s ineffective. Violence is dreadfully effective. That’s why those in power use it.”
Derrick Jensen

Violence has been a ubiquitous and necessary element in justice struggles throughout history. Hitler, for instance, could never have been defeated without the use of violent methods, nor would the American Revolution have been possible. Vital forces of ethics and justice have involved groups such as the Jewish Resistance, Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad, Gandhi and the Indian independence movement, the Suffragettes, Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement, and Nelson Mandela and the African National Congress. All of them broke the law, destroyed the enemy’s property, or committed violence; they were beaten, jailed, killed, and denounced as extremists or the equivalent of terrorists.

Yet who will argue that their actions were wrong? Today we lionize Nelson Mandela as a great hero, but he and the ANC used violence to win their freedom. People forget that the much-heralded Suffragettes in England and the US used arson and bombs to help win the emancipation of women. Few if any movements for social change have succeeded without a radical fringe, without civil disobedience, property destruction, and even violence — so why should one expect it to be any different with the animal liberation struggle?

It is incredibly naïve to believe that a revolution of the scale and complexity such as needed now can come about through education, legislation, and prompting veganism on a mass scale. From our pluralist, pragmatist, and contextualist position, we can surely see these as important tactics, but they need to be supplemented by direct action and, more importantly, by a revolutionary social movement propelled by numerous groups in an anti-capitalist alliance politics. 7

Contaminated by the mindset of the fundamentalist–unable to capture complexity and tenaciously clinging to absolute truths and facile dualisms—Hall’s outlook is dogmatic and monolithic. Theologically divorced from reality and concrete situations by an obsession with the abstract and purity of principles in a viral world, she is incapable of recognizing contexts in which intimidation or sabotage is useful and necessary and that the animal liberation movement needs a plurality of tactics to succeed.

Hall and Priscilla Feral, the president of Friends of Animals, summarized their objection to militant direct action when they wrote,

We do not believe that “armed revolution” should be considered part of a debate within animal advocacy. First — and this is the key point — because it contradicts the non-violent ethic of animal rights, seen in its best light. Second, because even if there were not that ethical problem, the existence of at least some animal advocates who espouse violence or intimidation allows the public to decry an entire movement on such grounds. Third, because in any case it’s impossible for animal advocates to prevail in armed conflict against an armed government (which is the entity protecting property interests). 8

Notice how FoA, Hall, and other Franciombes censor and ban certain issues from the discussion of animal liberation because they, in their estimation, possess the truth. What “non-violent ethic of animal rights”? That is not our definition of animal rights, so how does Feral and Hall’s one-sided response elide into THE definition? And who is talking about armed struggle as the principal tactic of struggle? Who is saying they can shoot it out with the most violent and militarist state in history? Not us.

Yet rejecting the use of sabotage and raids as vital tactics is laughably idealistic when one considers that animal exploiters are fiercely determined to protect their profits and have the full weight of a powerful and brutally violent state apparatus behind them.

Hall and FoA are right to critically examine direct action for moral worth and practical effectiveness. But despite their conclusion to the contrary, to effect large-scale, progressive social change the animal rights movement needs the third leg of militant agitation to complement the emphases on education and legislation. While illegal sabotage actions are rearguard, piecemeal, and ineffective as the sole agents of change, they are key facets of resistance and they are readily defensible from a moral standpoint as they serve as a form of extensional self-defense carried out by human proxy agents on behalf of suffering animals. 9

Typically, those who vilify saboteurs as “violent” leap to the conclusion that they are “terrorists,” failing to realize that there is an important difference insofar as one can use violence in morally legitimate ways in conditions ranging from self-defense to a “just war.” The ALF is not a terrorist organization because (1) they never physically injure people, and (2) they never target anyone but those directly involved in the war against animals. Let’s do away with any false absolutist position and some serious hypocrisy while we are at it. Just as causing physical violence to another “person” is not always right, nor is it always wrong. There is wide assent that violence is legitimate to defend innocent human beings from being wrongly harmed or killed by others. In the paradigm case, who truly condemns the use of property destruction and violence to free Jewish prisoners from Nazi genocide? Resistance fighters blew up train tracks, gas ovens, and killed German soldiers at every possible opportunity. Bravo!

But if discussion turns to the use of property destruction or physical violence to liberate animals from oppression, suddenly there is outcry that this tactic is wrong, violent, and counter-productive. Appealing to critics to overcome the fallacy of speciesism and to think in a rigorously consistent manner, we simply ask: why? Why are the anti-Nazi resistance fighters heroes while the ALF are terrorists? Why is economic sabotage and violence acceptable to use in defense of human beings but not animals? This gross inconsistency ought to embarrass every unprejudiced and logical person and it is a scandal when paraded about by a so-called “animal advocate.” It is just a disguised form of speciesism whereby extraordinary actions are courageous and laudable if done on behalf of human animals but despicable and deplorable if taken for nonhuman animals.

Beginning in 1976, the ALF declared war against animal oppressors and the state that defends them, but the ALF did not start the conflict. The ALF did not so much wage war as it entered into a war that animal exploiters long ago began. If one party succumbs to a war initiated by another party, it employs violence in self-defense and so its actions are legitimate. Animals too have the right to self defense. But since they cannot defend themselves (except for instances such as where elephants or tigers justly kill their trainers), humans must act on their behalf. And if violence is needed to save an animal from attack, then violence is legitimate as a means of self defense for animals. If one likes, this could be called extensional self defense, since humans are acting on behalf of animals who are so vulnerable and oppressed they cannot fight back to attack or kill their oppressors.

Deeply committed to the dogmatic axiom that we can win liberation for animals with enough flowers to go into every rifle butt, Hall is living in a different reality, a different galaxy. For just as the known natural universe is held together by the laws of gravity, so the only social universe humans ever lived within is anchored in the laws of struggle, power, and counter-power. Hall and her ilk do more harm than good in the sense that they offer people an enticing illusion that they can fight animal exploiters without posing any real existential threat to the systematic torture and murder of sentient beings.

Pass the Pacifism Please

“Do you think then that revolutions are made with rose water?” Alain Chamfort

How far removed from reality is Lee Hall? In a 2003 article entitled “Of Babies, Bathwater, and the Animal Rights Movement,” she wrote, “If our task is to encourage people to embrace non-violence, then one vegan recipe is worth more than all the incendiary devices in the world.” 10“One recipe” is so earth-shaking?! This quote perfectly captures the hyperbole, wild fantasy, and naïveté of Feral, Hall, and Franciombes in general. The statement here is circular, question-begging, and true by definition. Handing the Joseph Luters of this world vegan recipes, moreover, is not likely to convince them to give up the lucrative business (and incredibly violent practice) of factory farming.

Cliff Preefer, the owner of a restaurant in Manhattan called Sacred Chow, is one of Hall’s “revolutionary soldiers” who has armed himself with vegan recipes. An FOA review of his eatery captured the essence of his strategy:

Cliff expresses a devotion to peaceful change: “Everything we do is a practice of trying to be less violent.” Instead of anger toward others who do not share this peaceful perspective on diet, Cliff resolved to “make me more gentle, and maybe in that way, I can affect other things in the world.” 11

So what do Feral, Hall, Bob Torres, and countless other peacenik protégés of Francione have to offer for tactics? For making the “vegan revolution” real? The answer? Their entire revolution hinges on converting the world to veganism, which proceeds “one plate at a time.” Feral exhibits the mentality in classic form: “Lee has said veganism is achieved one person at a time; we’re striving to achieve a critical mass, just as vegans started out doing. As a profound social revolution involves a challenge to domination, it requires us to stop viewing animals as a meal; to get them off our menus. That’s why Dining With Friends was written.” 12

According to Feral, she and Hall also wrote their “revolutionary tome” because, “Some vegan cookbooks are trendy with a fixation on one type of food item. I wanted to publish a cookbook without relying on a gimmick such as “Sexy and Saucy…” whatever – and illustrate appetizers to desserts in an interesting, workable presentation.”

The problem, indeed, is about “time,” and the hour’s grown far too late for the fatuous “revolution one plate at a time” fantasy. Their revolution unfolds individual by individual, growing geometrically. Meanwhile, meat consumption is increasing exponentially, particularly in heavily populated nations where capitalism is in its infancy. 13 In large developing countries like China, India and Brazil, consumption of red meat has risen 33 percent in the last decade. Current levels of meat consumption are expected to double globally between by 2050, and the human population is projected to grow to 9 billion. While the global economic downturn may slow the globe’s appetite for meat momentarily, it is not likely to reverse a profound trend.”

But what do Lee Hall and her fellow Franciombes say about this? Nothing. Why aren’t they in underdeveloped countries trying to stop the juggernaut? Why? Because they are quite comfortable in their privileged positions, their New York apartments, and their smorgasbord of vegan cafes. Apparently, a key part of their plan to save the world is to produce a cookbook for the white elite and middle classes. Maybe if they actually handed out plates full of vegan food to the homeless or to the hungry in poor minority neighborhoods, the change could proceed faster.

There is no time to waste on this narrow, dogmatic approach. In January 2009 NASA scientist James Hansen told President Obama he had 4 years to radically change US energy policy or it would be too late for the planet. But Franciombes don’t engage this crisis, because it shatters their vegan utopia and glacial concept of change. In spite of their cookbooks, recipes and vegan dining alternatives, in 4 years there will be a hell of a lot more meat eaters than vegans and the planet will be irreversibly damaged. We need every tactic in the book—and even some that aren’t—to turn this global omnicidal tanker ship of speciesist capitalism around.

Cavorting with Speciesists

“Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is in an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob, and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe.” Frederick Douglass

Instead of lauding those who engage animal exploiters with the tactics of direct action, Hall and FOA continue to chant their mantra of “non-violence” and even go so far as to collaborate with enemies of MDA groups. In an open letter to Mark Potok and Morris Dees of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), Hall and Feral again lapsed into a delusion of grandeur by presuming to speak for the entire animal rights movement in stating, “It does not matter how many times one repeats misanthropic exhortations heard at some non-profit corporation’s fundraising event: the message of animal rights is nonviolence.” 14

FoA even went so far as to invite Potok to speak at their 2005 “Foundations of a Movement” animal rights conference. Potok, according to FoA’s website, “described trends in animal and environmental activism that parallel the growth of right-wing extremism. Mark spoke of the debilitating effect of specific decisions and rhetoric in drawing people into a movement who appear to the outer world to have little respect for humanity, nonhuman animals, or the environment. Mark also recounted how Morris Dees and the Southern Poverty Law Center have recently intervened in the Sierra Club elections to stop ‘the greening of hate.’” 15

While a reputable organization for identifying the threat of racist, neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic, and other reactionary groups, SPLC betrays their own biases, prejudices, and ignorance in stigmatizing groups like the ALF and SHAC as “extremists” and “hate groups” and therefore lumping egalitarian, anti-hierarchical, and non-racist liberationists in with despicable and vile purveyors of violence. Militant animal liberationists are not principally about hate, but rather love – a love of life and sympathy for all sentient beings so great they will risk their own freedom to secure that of another. The only thing they “hate” is oppression, animal exploiters, and injustice of any kind, including how humans treat animals, and rightly so. But, on the somewhat safe assumption that Dees, Potok, and other luminaries of SPLC and humanist causes are not vegans, but rather dine on the rotting carcasses of tortured beings, we could much more legitimately say that they are hateful degenerates who inflict their own violent and bigoted natures onto any nonhuman species they can comfortably sink a fork and knife into.

To her credit, author Joan Dunayer declined to speak at the FoA conference with Potok and explained why in a letter to fellow AR activists:

Mark Potok clearly is largely ignorant of, and indifferent to, the cruelty and injustice of vivisection, the pelt industry, food-industry enslavement and slaughter, and other forms of speciesist abuse. He’s an active foe of animal rights and animal rights advocacy. It’s an understatement to say that Potok has no genuine understanding of animal rights and is not an appropriate keynote speaker for an animal rights conference.

Friends of Animals does a disservice to nonhuman animals and their advocates in hosting Potok, giving him positive publicity, and presenting him as a credible spokesperson with regard to animal rights. I no longer will participate in the FoA conference because I no longer believe that participation is in the best interests of nonhuman animals. Further, I advise animal advocates to be wary of Potok and the SPLC. 16

And if the SPLC’s aspersions cast against the perpetrators of direct action in the animal rights movement are true, then the militant factions of the civil rights movement (the cause the SPLC champions) were also analogous to rightwing extremist groups. Had it not been for “hate groups” like the Black Panthers, the legal and financial foundation upon which the SPLC comfortably rests would not even exist. The next time Potok and Dees are savoring a platter of ‘delectable’ Southern fried decomposing chicken tissue in an integrated restaurant in Montgomery, Alabama, they need to remind themselves that the black couple in the booth next to them would be eating in a separate restaurant if some civil rights activists hadn’t utilized militant tactics.

Inviting a speciesist like Potok to appear at the FoA’s conference on animal rights as a keynote speaker further exemplifies Hall’s disconnect from reality, her collaboration with animal oppressors, and her strategic ineptitude. If her goal is to form alliances, she should forget such hardened bigots and reach out to poor people of color living in the underbelly of privileged communities.

The same FoA conference also featured this amazingly ridiculous exchange: “Peter Galvin is research director for the Center for Biological Diversity. Peter’s car runs on biofuel and an interesting discussion came up between Peter and Loren Lockman about the best vegetable-based fuels. Loren, who spoke of Treading Lightly on the Earth and How Our Decisions Impact Other Animals, is founder and director of the Tanglewood Wellness Center. Loren drives a recycled and extremely handsome two-door Mercedes with non-leather interior, powered on vegetable oil recycled from restaurants.” 17

It’s difficult to imagine more than a relative handful of Lee’s 6.5 billion potential vegan converts finding anything of value in a debate on the merits of various vegetable-based fuels or in hearing about a conference participant’s “green car,” particularly when its manufacturer caters to the very oppressor class we must eliminate in order to achieve liberation for human and non-human animals.

Instead of wasting their time attempting to foment a pacifist bourgeois revolution, Hall, FOA and Francione might want to consider inviting the poor and working class to participate. And while they’re at it, maybe some Franciombes could extend a hand of solidarity to oppressed people rather than to privileged speciesists who brand MDA as a hate crime.

Love Thy Oppressors

“There are many people who feel that it is useless and futile for us to continue talking peace and non-violence — against a government whose only reply is savage attacks on an unarmed and defenseless people. And I think the time has come for us to consider, in the light of our experiences at this day at home, whether the methods which we have applied so far are adequate.” Nelson Mandela

“So let us not talk falsely now,
The hour is getting late.”
Bob Dylan, “All Along the Watchtower”

Hall and fellow Franciombes suffer from a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome, identifying far more with animal oppressors than with animal liberators throughout her nauseating Capers in the Churchyard and “one vegan recipe at a time” approach to animal liberation. In the series of open letter exchanges Hall had with the SPLC about their “Intelligence Report” that compared members of the ALF and SHAC to abortion clinic bombers like the Army of God, Hall lashes out at “activists who glorify aggression” to reassure those at the helm of our oppressive and exploitative system that they have nothing to fear from the AR movement. 18 No intimidation or sabotage here. Just an appeal to humanity’s alleged inner moral goodness and The Joy of Tofu.

Comparing the amount of invective that Hall dishes out against animal rights militants to that she reserves for corporate exploiters of billions of animals, it is obvious that she sympathizes far more with animal oppressors than she does with militant animal activists and that she’d probably rather see Kevin Jonas and Josh Harper of the SHAC7 go to jail before Brian Cass of HLS or David Novak of Yum! Brands, Inc. She goes so far as to virtually apologize to corporate animal exploiters for the rude ways militant activists treat them.

Lee Hall, we have one question for you: just whose fucking side are you on in this war?

While accusing direct activists of internalizing values of our dominator culture, Hall has swallowed the oppressor’s most powerful ruse by uncritically embracing nonviolence—not unlike many of the Jews in Nazi Germany. While lofty principles like pacifism may be admirable and often tactically sound, when billions of animals are suffering every day, and the globe faces the imminent prospects of biological meltdown and ecological collapse, the question becomes: Which do you love more — the animals or your principles?

Perhaps Hall’s pacifism is actually a calculated and deceitful means of creating a self-satisfying edifice of virtue, which in turn enables her to knowingly collaborate with the mortal enemies of the defenseless innocents for whom she professes to love. And to what saving grace and Messiah for the animals do Feral and Hall appeal to deliver humans from evil? Why of course to newly elected President Obama: “We look forward to a government that learns to disengage from the old, violent methods: violence that harms us all, human and non-human.” 19 Keep looking, because the Obama administration is not it; running on the campaign promise to bring us “change we can believe in,” instead Obama is fully committed to Israel, militarism, neoliberalism, the surveillance state, and bragging to Illinois cattle auctioneers that there aren’t any vegetarians in the Democratic Party. Liberal shallowness and naïveté at its best. Only through a single-issue, ahistorical, and non-systemic lens, one oblivious to the realities of state power and profound limitations of the Democratic Party could Hall and Feral hold out hope for humans or animals through Obama’s Presidency.

To be clear: We are not advocating the use of physical violence as a first strike measure or pivotal tactic for animal liberation, but nor are we taking it off the table as something that has to be dogmatically excluded on fundamentalist pacifist principles alone. We prefer not to disarm this struggle against monumental evil and destruction of life in any way. In some contexts outside the First World, in particular, violence may be very necessary – such as to save the Rwandan mountain gorillas from extinction, and indeed there is an armed struggle of soldiers against poachers to do this. Thankfully, Hall is not directing this effort, for the gorillas would be slaughtered and served as burgers, right next to Hall’s Vegan Outreach stand giving away free tofu pups.

Euro and US-centric pacifist animal liberationists, listen up: there is already an ongoing – and quite necessary– armed struggle to save one amazing species from extinction in Africa. By what edict or fiat do you claim we cannot and must not employ MDA to end animal exploitation in Japan, Thailand, or Brazil? And what do you propose we say to the billions of animals enduring unimaginable suffering and meeting violent ends at the hands of ruthless exploiters? We love you, but we’re sorry, we aren’t going to help you because we don’t believe in violence?

We are not taking Lee Hall to task for her position that legislation and vegan education are viable means to advance the cause of animal rights. But we are condemning her for betraying the courageous people who engage in direct action, an indispensable element of animal liberation. They have taken considerable risks and some have suffered significant consequences as they have acted in extensional self-defense for our non-human animal brethren. In unconditionally attacking them, Lee Hall is a traitor to the movement and a mouthpiece for speciesist and corporate-state propaganda.

As more and more people gain critical consciousness of the severe problems in Hall’s philosophical and tactical positions, including dualism, essentialism, either/or fallacies, elitism, dogmatic pacifism, and more, let us hope her 15 minutes have expired and she will retire to the back offices of FoA, where she can do least harm.

Dr. Steve Best is Thomas Paine’s Corner’s senior editor of total liberation and animal rights. Associate professor of philosophy at UTEP, award-winning writer, noted speaker, public intellectual, and seasoned activist, Steven Best engages the issues of the day such as animal rights, ecological crisis, biotechnology, liberation politics, terrorism, mass media, globalization, and capitalist domination. Best has published 10 books, over 100 articles and reviews, spoken in over a dozen countries, interviewed with media throughout the world, appeared in numerous documentaries, and was voted by VegNews as one of the nations “25 Most Fascinating Vegetarians.” He has come under fire for his uncompromising advocacy of “total liberation” (humans, animals, and the earth) and has been banned from the UK for the power of his thoughts. From the US to Norway, from Sweden to France, from Germany to South Africa, Best shows what philosophy means in a world in crisis.

Jason Miller is a relentless anti-capitalist, straight edge vegan, and animal liberationist. He is also the founder and editor of Thomas Paine’s Corner, blog director for The Transformative Studies Institute and associate editor for the Journal for Critical Animal Studies.

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To further your sociopolitical education, strengthen your connection with the radical community, and deepen your participation in forming an egalitarian, just, ecological, non-speciesist and democratic society, visit the Transformative Studies Institute at http://transformativestudies.org/ and the Institute for Critical Animal Studies at http://www.criticalanimalstudies.org/.

Notes:

1. On the SHAC movement, see Steven Best and Richard Kahn, “Trial By Fire: The SHAC7 and the Future of Democracy,” IMPACT Press #52, August-September 2004, http://www.impactpress.com/articles/augsep04/shac78904.html.

2. “How Did AETA Happen?,” March 2007, http://www.all-creatures.org/aip/nl-20070322-how.html.

3. See “Separating the Green from the Scare,” October 2008 (http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2008/october/separating-the-green.html) and “The Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act May Soon Be Law: How Could This Happen?” (http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Oct06/Hall31.htm).

4. See Steven Best, “Dispatches from a Police State: Animal Rights in the Crosshairs of State Repression,” The International Journal of Inclusive Democracy, Vol. 3, #1, January 2007, http://www.inclusivedemocracy.org/journal/vol3/vol3_no1_Best_animal_rights.htm; and Steven Best and Anthony Nocella II, “Clear-Cutting Green Activists: The FBI Escalates the War on Dissent,” IMPACT Press, Issue #60, Spring 2006, http://www.impactpress.com/articles/spring06/bestspring06.html.

5. Lee Hall, “Of Babies, Bathwater, and the Animal Rights Movement,” Summer 2003, Actionline, http://www.friendsofanimals.org/actionline/summer-2003/babies-bathwater-animal-rights-movement.php. Our emphasis.

6. See Tom Regan, “How to Justify Violence,” in Steven Best and Anthony J. Nocella (eds.) Terrorists or Freedom Fighters? Reflections on the Liberation of Animals. New York: Lantern Books, pp. 231-236.

7. See Steven Best and Anthony J. Nocella II, “Introduction: A Fire in the Belly of the Beast: The Emergence of Revolutionary Environmentalism,” Igniting a Revolution: Voices in Defense of Mother Earth, AK Press, 2006, pp.8-25.

8. “FoA’s Response to Speaking Invitations for the 2005 `Grassroots Animal Rights Conference,’” http://www.friendsofanimals.org/programs/animal-rights/grassroots-animal-rights-conference.html.

9. On justifying violence as a form of “extensional self-defense,” see Steven Best, “Evolve or die: Can we shed our moral primitivism before it’s too late?,” Thomas Paine’s Corner, January 18, 2009, http://thomaspainescorner.wordpress.com/2009/01/18/evolve-or-die-can-we-shed-our-moral-primitivism-before-it%e2%80%99s-too-late/

10. Hall, “Of Babies, Bathwater, and the Animal Rights Movement.”

11. Edita Birnkrant,“Sacred Chow: The Pursuit of Peaceful Proteins,” Fall 2005, Actionline, http://www.friendsofanimals.org/actionline/fall-2005/sacred-chow.php

12. “Pricilla Feral Interview,” Abolitionist Online, Issue 2, 2007, http://www.abolitionist-online.com/07r_feral.shtml.

13. Elizabeth Rosenthal, “From hoof to dinner table, a new bid to cut emissions,” December 4, 2008, International Herald Tribune, http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/04/healthscience/04meat.php

14. Our emphasis. Read the increasingly endearing exchange of letters between FoA and Potok and Dees on the Friends of Animals website, at: http://www.friendsofanimals.org/programs/animal-rights/foa-response-splc.html.

15. Pricilla Feral and Lee Hall, “The Foundations of a Movement 2005: An Animal Rights Conference,” http://www.friendsofanimals.org/the-foundations-of-a-movement/index.html.

16. See “Joan Dunayer Withdraws from Friends of Animals Conference Because Opponent of Animal Rights/Eco-Terrorism Invited As Well,” http://www.animalrights.net/articles/2005/joan-dunayer-withdraws-from-friends-of-animals-conference-because-opponent-of-animal-rightseco-terrorism-invited-as-well/.

17. Pricilla Feral and Lee Hall, “The Foundations of a Movement 2005: An Animal Rights Conference.”

18. For the SPLC hatchet job on SHAC, see “From Push to Shove
Radical environmental and animal-rights groups have always drawn the line at targeting humans. Not anymore,” Intelligence Report, Fall 2002, http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=42.

19. “New Political Times, Breathing Space for Animal Rights,” Friends of Animals, November 5, 2008, http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2008/november/new-political-times-.html.

63 Responses to “Pacifism or Animals: Which Do You Love More? A Critique of Lee Hall, Friends of Animals, and the Franciombe Effect in the New Abolitionist Movement”

  1. Howdy my friend Steve,
    I have come to understand that in order to be effective, we have to be willing to step out of our comfort zones and take action. All changes that have taken place in history have come about from a small group of people committed to a cause, but not from sitting around comfortably talking about it but from those who actually took action.
    Many of those who are called militants today will be regarded as heros in years to come.
    I also find it interesting that almost all of man-made laws are in direct opposition to natural laws and when we break natures laws, it breaks us.
    Be well,
    captain cook

  2. Dominique said

    How many poor innocent animals have to die agonizing barbaric deaths before we stop the sociopaths from inflicting these nightmarish atrocities on other species. It should have been stopped after just one. Yes, this is ultimately about greed, but whatever the reasons they cannot be justified by any means. Lee’s viewpoint is based on childish denial, and not of a mature, sound mindset, and extreme disappointment for her and her accepters to follow such an backwards, unrealistic view. How do they sleep one more night not feeling compelled to stop this insanity by any means? If you knew your child was being tortured and killed, would you be satisfied to take such a non aggressive action? Lee’s tactics are too ridicules to ever achieve any results. And How dare she publicly denounce the brave and morally, and ethically conscious souls that are willing to take the action needed to stand up and save OUR CHILDREN,(THE ANIMALS), yes they are our children and our responsibility is to protect them from harm by any means!!!

  3. Hiya Steve,
    You blow me away with your words. Lets hope you can blow away the cobwebs of pacifism too. Lets get this show on the road. All the major ‘AR’ charity groups are sidling towards the middle of the road. They need a shove and you SHOVE us. You give us strength and resolve to know that we are right. God bless you and all who sail after you. The wind of righteousness blows into your sails.

  4. Awesome. Great job on the article to both of you.

    The points that you have put forward here go with any type of activism and action.

    Sometimes a call to arms is necessary.

  5. Francesca Rogers said

    “Finally! Someone has taken this obnoxious demagogue, Lee Hall to task. What an important piece of criticism this is! may the whole movement read this and realize that one of the “best” animal rights books is in fact among the very worst! Her attitudes toward heroes with SHAC and the ALF are disgraceful and she really IS a traitor!”

  6. [...] Pacifism or Animals: Which Do You Love More? « Thomas Paine’s Corner [...]

  7. michele6933 said

    re. total equality of species : Who will decide when it has been reached ?

  8. dave said

    On their glowing positive reviews- I was asked to do one, before I came to the realization that FOA was not an animal rights group. They send out emails to their staff, friends of staff, etc to write glowing positive reviews- that’s why all their books have many stars and many positive reviews on Amazon.com and other sites.

    A few tidbits from when I worked with them: Priscilla and her husband, both FoA employees, make about 180k a year together. They send P’s daughter to private school, and Priscilla buys milk products for her daughter (who is vegetarian, not vegan). Priscilla also buys tuna for her cat.

    Also, FoA owns a BMW- non-leather seats were not an option in the year they purchased it.

  9. Priscilla Feral said

    Sounds like Best’s knickers are in too tight of a knot. Shrill, hysterical, dishonest, verbose rant that misses every target.

    Buzz off, scary guy.

  10. mimi said

    excellent article !,…how dare this person blindly criticise SHAC and ALF ,it was SHAC that bought me back to anti vivisection AR etc and to become vegan

  11. #7 From Dave is fabricated. First, Priscilla’s child
    is vegan, not in school, and second, the 13 year-old car I drive has vinyl seats. Pack of lies. How unsurprising.

  12. Dave Shishkoff said

    Wow – you must feel pretty threatened by Lee Hall.

    And you call Hall a pacifist, and impotent.

    Yet, there’s practically a novel of retaliation here.

    Again – you’re evidently quite scared of this ‘pacifist’.

    Think about it: maybe you’re wrong. (You repeatedly mischaracterize Hall,
    Feral and FoA, at the very least.)

    You critique a peaceful vegan movement for having only affected 1% of the
    population — and yet how many people have these violent/militant actions
    positively influenced? Maybe a small percentage of that 1%. Bravo, kettle.

    The most disturbing aspect of the violent/militant activism is that this
    violence can be turned on *anyone*. I’ve been personally threatened by SHAC
    activists. I’m a vegan of over 18yrs and activist most of that time (often
    the only person in my city organizing anything.) And *i’m* considered a
    fair target of these people as well – because i disagree with their tactics.

    You make a point that avoiding violence is a pathology…how is anyone
    supposed to walk away from reading this, not convinced you’re a bunch of
    thugs? If you were actually serious about your anti-speciesist claims,
    you’d have to attack your friends, families, co-workers and neighbors. They
    all willingly commit violence to animals as well. Three times a day.

    Of course, you aren’t comfortable being violent to those you’re familiar
    with, so instead target those outside of your social sphere — why are those
    who exploit animals that are close to you immune from your threats? Why
    don’t you firebomb your mother’s kitchen – what is the justification *not
    to*? And you’re somehow likening non-violence to a ‘pathology’….

    Finally, do not call yourselves vegans. You’re not vegans. If you took the
    time to read what Donald Watson (who coined the term vegan in 1944) had to
    say, you’d know that what you’re doing is in direct opposition to what he
    envisioned. He was a dedicated peace activist and promoted ideas of peace
    and respect, and this was embodied in the vegan philosophy. The notion of
    blowing things up, militarism, or threatening people personally is anathema
    to veganism. Do not call yourselves vegans until you agree with the
    principles behind it. Anything less would be…well…hypocritical.

  13. John Simpson said

    Why is Hall’s compadre so defensive? As chummy as they are with Potok and the SPLC, maybe Feral and Hall collaborate with the FBI too!

  14. Greg Smythe said

    Wow! One of Hall’s zombies has invaded the thread! Dave, grow some balls, man! And learn how to think critically while you’re at it. You personify the dogmatic, monolithic, distorted, either/or “thinking” this piece rightfully attacks. Your “all or nothing” conclusion about employing violence is beyond absurd. This isn’t about declaring war on every speciesist. Blowing up your mom’s kitchen! Good one! Yeah, that’s what all of us who support DA want to do! You dumbfuck!

    It’s about carrying out a social revolution against an incredibly violent system and culture premised on exploiting and dominating the Earth and all life forms on it. This article, if you would take the time to actually read it and process it, underscores the fact that history clearly shows us that militant direct action has been a necessary tactic in all revolutions and significant social transformations. Animal liberation will be no exception. Hall’s notion that we’re at a tea party and can “all be friends” is idealistic nonsense!

    Absolute adherence to non-violence is pathological. Read Ward Churchill’s Pacifism as Pathology.

    And as for you being a target of direct action groups, perhaps if you kept your mouth shut and let them do their part for the animals you wouldn’t incur their wrath. If you don’t agree with their tactics, no one says you HAVE to support them, but when Hall, you, and the rest of you Judas’s speak out against them, you are traitors to the movement and to the animals. Fuck you and Lee Hall!

    Oh, sorry Dave. I used violent language!

    Oh yeah, and I bet Best and Miller are shaking in their shoes over Lee Hall. I know I tremble each time she whips out one of those vegan recipes. Tofu? 3 tsps of soy milk? A pinch of nutritional yeast? Nnnoooooooo!!!!! Lee! Put it away! PLLLLEEEAASSEEE!!!

  15. Mel said

    Oh, my. I have a headache after reading this. Best and Miller wouldn’t dare attack and abuse a male in this manner. I don’t see how anyone will take these two seriously after this sophomoric rant. You are not helping your cause, that’s for certain.

  16. Dustin Rhodes said

    Lee Hall’s brilliant Capers in the Churchyard is the most sane and inspiring work on the subject of animal rights I have ever read (I have a review of it written on Amazon, and for the record, I did not know Lee Hall in any way when I either read the book or wrote the review). It possesses a level of critical thinking, thoughtfulness and intelligence that is practically non-existent in the current animal rights movement.

    What’s the real point of this rambling, long-winded, mean-spirited diatribe (which at its core doesn’t seem interested in advancing anything other than hatred and its own ego)? There are many of us who are involved in animal rights because we view it as a peace movement, and I have no regret or uncertainty or doubt that the way to effectively challenge human domination is not through more human domination. The entire history of human behavior/culture is marred by violence and destruction—insanity. What Lee Hall(and others) offers is a theory of animal rights that seeks the very best from humans, and endeavors to treat all animals, human and non-human, with respect. Lee Hall is one of the most courageous and intelligent advocates this movement has.

  17. Derek V. Oatis said

    There is much wrong with this article . . . and some points that do deserve discussion.

    Let me start by saying that I once had a relationship with Friends of Animals. As an attorney, activist and perhaps friend (however short lived). Way back when, I along with my comrades from the Animal Rights Front engaged in a number direct action in support of a FoA anti-hunting campaign. I have a fond memory of being bonded out of jail with Jerry Vlasick and Pam Ferdin and being met by Priscilla Feral who presented us with a batch of vegan cookies.

    Unfortunately, that was a long time ago and much has changed. My relationship with Priscilla Feral, (furror and president of FoA) imploded when I co-founded a CT animal rights blog that spoke well of Francione and direct action. When I told Feral that I thought that Lee Hall had little to contribute and that the Southern Poverty Law Center was an absolute scam, that was the end of that relationship. (Truth be told- I also accidentally sent Feral an email intended for a fellow ARF member in which I called Feral f***ing nuts).

    So, before I comment on the general premise of this article, allow me to point out some significant failings in its premise.

    First, I don’t understand why FoA and Hall are lumped with Francione. FoA and Hall long ago became sworn enemies to Francione. (The reasons for this falling out are so juvenile and pathetic that your opinion of Feral and Hal would actually diminish considerably if you knew-hard to believe, I know). I should disclose that even though I believe FoA does far more harm to the AR movement than good (as does every ‘big’ group), I remain a big fan of Francione. While I may have many disagreements with his definition of what violence is (and therefore what ‘unacceptable’ direct action is) I believe that he remains the foremost thinker and strategist of the AR movement (that may sound like faint praise but I do mean it as a compliment).

    Best and Miller are correct in calling Capers in the Church yard a piece of crap and also recognizing that it does, inaccurately, ‘sell out’ AR activists and wrongly blame direct action for government repression. I do not so much believe that Lee Hall is a ‘traitor’ so much as she is simply a hack with no understanding of the law who is desperate to make a name for herself and to appease FoA’s old, wealthy, conservative membership list.

    However, Best and Miller are similarly mistaken when they calim that reactionary government policies (such as AETA) were a result of SHAC/ALF campaigns. If one has a memory that stretches back more that 15 years, one would know that government infiltration and COINTELPRO-type operations against AR activist were in full swing long before SHAC and long before anyone on these shores had ever heard of ALF.

    Ironically, one of the most disgusting government led ‘black-ops’ was the US Surgical action against local activists, including FoA. Please read the NY Times article, “Animal-Rights Case: Terror or Entrapment?” for a quick primer.
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE7DE1430F930A35750C0A96F948260

    US Surgical (the folks that use live dogs to demonstrate their nifty surgical staples) used agent provocateurs and local law enforcement to entrap a misguided local activist in order to discredit animal rights. This conduct was not a reaction to violent ALF actions, since none had occurred in this country yet, nor was it a reaction to SHAC, since most of those activists were wearing diapers. The fact is that the government and corporate powers began using horrific means of violence and repression against AR activist long before so called ‘terrorist direct action’. If these tactics by corporate powers are proof that animal rights activist are “shaking some foundations” , then the US surgical case (and many others) stands as proof that AR activists “shaking some foundations” long before violent action and SHAC tactics became a pubescent fad.

    For Best and Miller to claim otherwise is simply ignorant. Both violent and non-violent activism has provoked violent repression from cooperate interests. For Best and Miller to claim that only Malcolm X/Blank Panther activism provoked violent government action (“COINTELPRO in reaction to the emerging social movements of the 1960s”) is ignorant and offensive. As far as Best and Miller seek to define effectiveness by reactionary government policy, are they ignorant of the murdered and lynched activists that suffered for their non-violent campaigns? Are they ignorant of the many dead non-violent followers of MLK? Blacks, whites, Christians and Jews whose bones rot at the bottom of swamps? It is offensive in that it attempts to erase this history and this sacrifice from political discourse.

    While I am troubled that Best and Miller are ignorant, I am more troubled by the fact that Lee Hall is clearly willfully dishonest. Since FoA was intimately familiar with the government brutality suffered by Fran Trutt as a result of her opposition to US Surgical, Lee has no excuse for her lie that such government action is a result of SCHA/ALF tactics.

    Finally, why do Best and Miller, when they criticize Mark Potok, not also criticize the SPLC’ an organization that does little but fleece donors, collect money and do almost nothing in return?

  18. Derek V. Oatis said

    And to Poster 16. . . For goodness sakes, Dustin, if your going to waste space here drooling over Lee Hall’s rubbish, can you at least have the intellectual integrity to admit that you work for Friends of Animals and that if you actually criticized Lee Hall in any way you would be pumping gas or pouring Slushies for a living?

    Get a freak’in spine and a bit of integrity you pathetic sycophant.

  19. John Hanks said

    I don’t have much use for pacifism without resistance. I don’t like moralizing either. A liberal is someone who walks out of the room when a discussion turns into an argument. A conservative is a thief who only seeks rackets and advantage.

  20. First off there seems to be a vague request that I state that I am an employee of Friends of Animals. I find that request unreasoned and unreasonable, but I’ll honor it. Just allow me to point out that it is the truth of a statement, and not the name or background of the person stating it that is of sole importance. And it seems that no one required that “Dave” reveal his identity or document his facts. But then as “Dave” did not work at FoA, is not an expert on BMWs, it seems little is expected here, and little will be achieved here.

    For rather than a forum on ideas, as Thomas Paine might have wished, there are indefensible personal attacks. If someone has a specific criticism of “Capers in the Churchyard” or better yet wishes to discuss the effective of non-violence vs. violence in advancing animal rights, this would have been the place to do so.

    Instead, here we have someone identifying himself as Attorney Derek Oatis. This Derek goes on to joking refer to the Truth in “Truth be told” in describing the end of his relationship with FoA. But he is yet to tell the truth. For while he chides Dustin Rhodes above for not identifying himself as an FoA employee and not having a “spine”, he can’t bring himself to tell the truth.

    Derek, at the time of your very stupid error of sending an email to the person you meant to criticize behind their back, you were retained as an attorney by FoA. So either you did not have the courage to say it to Priscilla’s face because you were physically intimidated by her, or you were afraid of being terminated as an FoA attorney. Either is plausible, but both are the very thing you accused Dustin of. But in this case, you don’t know what Dustin thinks of either Capers or Lee Hall, so you can’t honestly address his motivations. Your motivations seem very clear though.

    I am not interested in your motivations though; I am interested in the Truth. You state Hall’s work is “rubbish.” Is there some reason the people should accept your unsupported opinion? Are we all just here waiting to hear Derek burp?

    Derek, you also mentioned US Surgical — I don’t recall ever seeing you at the demos, but perhaps I merely overlooked you (I wasn’t an FoA employee at the time). You don’t mention that is was FoA that coordinated those demos, that Priscilla was arrested after one, that US Surgical sued FoA over the demos or that FoA endured the years of litigation and survived. Just as it is now enduring the years of litigation by Peta-paid attorneys trying to close down Primarily Primates.

    You rhetorically state that you “know” why there was a falling out between FoA and Francione. Once again you fail to give facts — hoping that rhetorical device will fool the readers on this list because you are unable to give a truthful response. The truth being that you don’t know. Oh, you have an unsupported opinion based on what you may have heard, but you don’t know. Unless your concept of knowledge is similar to your perception of the Truth.

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

  21. AC said

    I certainly have no time for people preaching like this Lee Hall nutjob. Anyone who belittles the voluntary efforts of direct action activists is akin to the enemy.

    From lookin at this debate from this angle I would have to say that It looks like pacifism and direct action need each other, but should not undermine each other. We are a minority as it is, so dividing our ranks once more suits the corporates nicely. I think both sides should show respect (Pacifist and Direct action) and regardless of who is the more correct, we should continue to recognise our common enemy, and when it comes to commenting on the other group, shut our mouths, rather than write books running them down.

    Theres work to do.

    AaronC

  22. Yet what follows is the same Derek Oatis just two years earlier posting on the Friends of Animals VeganViews group.

    Hello all on this site:

    I am a Connecticut Animal Rights activist struggling mightily (but
    perhaps not to wisely) to build a coalition of Connecticut activist
    who can share ideas, support each other, and, when appropriate, join
    forces to have more power and leverage than we could have
    individually.

    I’ve been meaning to get on here sooner. . .

    Just looking at the most recent post, which was a review of Lee’s
    Capers in the Churchyard. I agree with the bulk of Lee’s thesis, that
    the two wrongheaded ‘extremes’ of the animal rights movement, para-
    military style intimidation and welfarist capitulation are both roads
    to personal and political self-destruction.

    Having said that, however, this review, and Capers, seem to unfairly
    lay at the feet of these misguided activists the harsh police and
    punitive overreaction that has come in the form of FBI surveillance
    and anti-animal “terrorist” legislation. As Ms. Martin writes in her
    review:

    In CAPERS, Hall examines actions of the Animal Liberation
    Front (ALF), the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), Stop Huntingdon Animal
    Cruelty (SHAC), Earth First!, and the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society,
    as well as actions of some of the leaders and leading organizations in
    animal rights (and also welfare), and demonstrates how ineffective they
    have been in working toward a goal of ceasing domination of the Earth
    and its nonhuman inhabitants by humans. Furthermore, one direct result
    of their actions is new legislation (the culmination of which Hall’s
    book doesn’t address as it was written before this occurred) here in
    the US called the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act (AETA)

    My criticism here is – aren’t we giving the Federal government way too
    much credit in proffering that the Fed’s knee-jerk putative, police
    power response to a bunch of dumb kids is actually a rational response
    and the result of any real cause and effect? When on earth have
    government police agencies ever needed a real reason, a real and
    actual threat to public health and safety, to implement laws that
    would fiercely punish radical activists who threaten the status quo?
    Do we for one second really believe that our criminal statutes are
    objective rational mechanisms to ensure public safety or are they just
    as much the result of prejudice, bigotry, and the interests of the
    powerful and politically connected?

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending threats of violence. One of my
    first real breaks with the Connecticut activist community was in the
    mid 90’s when a handful of young energetic activists were encouraged
    to this violent rhetoric by a few older angry activists. I criticized
    this conduct both public and privately. I’m just saying that there is
    a lot of dumb and dangerous people out there. Most of them don’t get
    the ‘honor’ of having Federal “anti-terrorist” legislation crafted in
    their honor.

    In Capers, Lee describes that:

    In May 2004, after a three-year investigation that involved the Joint
    Terrorism Task Force, agents rounded up seven youths accused
    of connections with attacks on a variety of targets. The investigation
    had generated the highest nymber of surveillance authorizations of any
    case in 2003- more than 141,000. . .

    Not that this was Lee’s intent, but the inference could be made that
    since the SAHC actions produced the “highest number of surveillance
    actions” that they were among the greatest threats to public safety.
    This was clearly not the case.

    Every day I defend individuals against criminal charges. Most of my
    clients have done things far more hurtful to folks than these SHAC
    dopes. Of all of my clients, only two have been the subject of FBI
    scrutiny. One was an animal right’s activist who never even made peep
    which could have been taken as impolite, much less threatening.

    Having been arrested four months ago with eight comrades who did
    nothing but hold signs informing circus patrons that Ringling Brothers
    violated the rights of elephants, I tend to be very suspect of the
    actions of governmental police agents.

    Lee is right that our biggest battle is not against acts of cruelty,
    but against a cultural of hierarchy and oppression. I’m just asking
    that we not, even for a moment, ever give the benefit of the doubt to
    the most hierarchical and oppressive institutions in our society.

    Oh yeah, all Connecticut local folks, please drop me a line.

    Peace,

    Derek

  23. James Crump said

    The authors of the essay claim that Lee Hall is an adjunct law professor at Rutgers University. That is untrue. Lee Hall has not been an adjunct at Rutgers for about four years now.

  24. raven said

    Bob- people change their minds. It’s not a novel concept.

    And it’s nice to know that Friends of Animals doesn’t care about the privacy of people on their email list- you seem too happy to share what’s posted on a private, members-only list.

  25. [...] For more (a lot more), go to Thomas Paine’s Corner’s new home. [...]

  26. Derek V. Oatis said

    Bob Orabona makes a fair point regarding FoA’s involvement with US Surgical. I tried to make this very point by describing FoA as an activist force against US Surgical. FoA was certainly THE activist force against US Surgical during this time. Similarly, FoA was glad to lend its support to “direct action” when it involved me and many other activists going into a closed park to put our bodies between hunters and their intended prey. This, I believe was classic non-violent direct action. It was not persuasion or rhetoric – it was coercion by our physical presence.

    Now, Lee Hall writes disparagingly of this type of direct action. She criticizes Paul Watson for putting “his body between a harpoon and a whale”. p. 65 of Capers (ooohhhh- citations!). She describes such “good-against- evil” activism as intrinsically portraying the “other side” as “scum [who must] pay”. p. 66 This is the same dismissive manner that permeates Best’s article.

    When I stood at Bluff Point (supporting an FoA action) and put myself between a shotgun and a deer, I did not think of the hunter as scum. (After all, in my preteens I ate meat and hunting wild animals is probably a lesser harm than buying flesh at Stop and Shop- but that’s a question better left to PETA/ HSUS and the “happy meat” crowd.) Direct action does not mean diminishing the value of the hunter (or trapper or butcher) it means radically elevating the status of the ‘object’ (the deer, mink or chicken). I did, however, think of him as a killer whose immediate goal was to drive a large metal slug into the flesh of a living, breathing, feeling and thinking creature and make that creature bleed to death. My primary goal on that day was not to persuade that hunter or offer him a vegan hummus wrap. My goal was to save a life as valuable and precious as my own and to send the message to the public that there were people who did care and that a simple individual act could save a life.

    When Paul Watson of the Sea Shepard puts his body between a whaler and the whale (an act that Hall distains) he is not diminishing the whaler. He is saying, “god damn it- there are three person here and all of us are equal- and I will make you kill me to prove otherwise”.

    Yes, that is coercive. Yes, it is the use of force (in a sense). Yes, it is often illegal. I do not want to inappropriately elevate the value of direct action or romanticize it. I do believe, however, that it is often the only decent and correct act in an indecent and screwed up world.

    I am not saying that this is the most effective form of activism or even that it is a necessary form of activism (although I would argue that it has an important place). I am simply saying that it is NOT violent and it is nonsense on the part of Lee Hall to refer to such activism as violent or hateful or to claim that direct action activists are promoting welfarism. When I did try to raise these questions with FoA I was banned from the “Friends of Animals VeganViews group”.

    Bob, please feel free to share any of my previous writings. I very much stand by what you did post. If sharing that previous post is meant to embarrass me, I don’t get it. I believe that is a very appropriate criticism of both the SHAC style mindless violence and the Lee Hall mindless self-loathing and exploitation of activists. I would ask however, since I no longer am allowed access to “VeganViews”, that you please post all of my writings from that site. There was a rather long discussion regarding violence and direct action that included Feral, Hall, Rhodes and you which I think is very germane to this discussion.

    Bob, to brag that FoA has “survived” its legal actions displays FoA’s horrific misunderstanding of why we go to court on behalf of animals. I hope that animal rights advocates who litigate for animals (there is no such thing as an “animal right’s attorney”) don’t do it for the benefit of FoA, PETA, or HSUS (although that is almost always the case). We should litigate for the survival of the non-humans who do not pay our bills and who cannot send big fat donations and to move the glacier that is common law away from animals as property.

    My “termination” by FoA was based solely upon by personal critique of Pricilla’s mental health and my support of Fancione and direct action. If you recall, the Monk Parakeet case on which I was working was going pretty well before my termination. For any one interested in a little back ground and how this case was going before Priscilla Feral decide that any friend of Francione and direct action is not friend of hers – please go to the ALF site http://www.animalliberationfront.com/News/2006_09/MonksConn.htm

    “Excerpt from The Connecticut Post Online:
    Animal rights activists have won in their attempt to protect shoreline monk parakeets colonies from slaughter at the hands of the United Illuminating Co. and the U.S. Department of Agriculture. A state trial referee in New Haven Superior Court last week ruled against UI’s motion to dismiss a request to prevent the type of capture-and-slaughter program that resulted in the deaths of 179 of the bright green parrots last year.
    The decision may already be paying dividends. UI officials said Wednesday that while they plan to remove new nests from dozens of utility poles in October, they will not use lethal methods, instead allowing the birds to fly away. In a 19-page decision, Judge Trial Referee David W. Skolnick ruled that UI never developed a way to discourage the birds from nesting in its wooden utility poles. “Therefore, it is likely that the birds will continue to do so,” Skolnick wrote, noting that alternatives exist.
    “The defendant’s failure to implement these measures is likely to cause the unnecessary destruction of monk parakeets, unnecessary harm to other species of wildlife, and impairment of the public trust in the ability of the state to protect its natural resources” in violation of state law, Skolnick wrote.
    Derek V. Oatis, Friends of Animals’ attorney, said the ruling is important.
    “For me, the biggest thing is that UI has claimed that its hands are tied by state or federal law and they had no choice but to gas these birds,” Oatis said Wednesday. “The judge said that’s not true as a matter of law.”

    Now, if anyone is interested on how this case went after I was “terminated” and FoA’s substantial dollars went to other counsel, please take a look at FoA’s own site http://www.friendsofanimals.org/news/2008/may/judge-dismisses-case.html
    or the CT Public Broadcasting Site http://www.cpbn.org/parakeet-lawsuit-dismissed
    “A Superior Court judge in New Haven has dismissed a lawsuit over the capture and killing of wild parakeets that live along Connecticut’s shoreline. . . safety threat.”
    Judge Anthony DeMayo . . . dismissed the case. However, he said he was doing so reluctantly and acknowledged that he was disappointed in the way the case had been presented by Friends of Animals.”

    Please, I hope that no one reading this believes that my criticism is only for FoA. I believe that all large animal corporations inevitable come to devote themselves first to donations and self perpetuation (“survival” as Bob called it) and cannot help but let animal interests and animal rights become subordinate to this bottom line. I do not believe that this is because the people involved in these organizations are bad or do not care about animals. I believe that the overwhelming majority care deeply. It is just that the nature of running a business means that you are . . . uhhmm. . .running a business. It is the nature of the beast and why no positive change has ever come from top down. “Trickle down” does not work with economics or truth.

    Finally, since FoA did mention the FoA/PETA/Primarily Primates property rights legal battle in the same post as described my legal work for FoA, I feel obliged to mention that I had no part in these legal battles and have never aided anyone’s “property” claim to another living being.

    Maybe if FoA remains on this legal path and fights for its animal ‘property’ we can all own slaves again (or be one).

    I would love to see some comments on the substance of this article. For example, I do not believe that direct action is synonymous with violence. I do not believe that we, as a movement, have even given “animal rights” a try yet. Let’s face it, all of our biggest organizations spend as much of their resources promoting “humane killing” as they do actually explaining what it means to recognize that creature besides humans actually have a right to their own lives. I do not believe that we can talk about non-violent animal rights advocacy having “failed” or moving at a “snails’ pace” when we haven’t even fucking tried it yet.

    Can we actually give animal rights a try before we start bust’in heads?

    Derek

  27. Thank you for the article. Good work.

  28. robert said

    Just destroying a little piece of what make us what we are,where we came from…and when we manage to get rid of the last of the animals,we are sure to follow shortly after….

  29. robert said

    As a species,humans are destined to destroy themselves through the destruction of their environment…again

  30. Lynn Sawyer said

    Well I thought it was a bloody good article but after reading it a couple of times I don’t really like personal criticism of Lee Hall, Gary Francione or Jeffrey Masson.We should be able to criticise one anothers stance without venom but I have not yet read Hall’s book so until I do I will reserve judgement but I am fuming about what I have read.

    As someone who was involved with SHAC here in the UK right from the start as well as (to a lesser extent) the Newchurch campaign I resent Hall putting the knife in to what have been strong vibrant campaigns which converted many to veganism and forced the vivisectors and the government to throw out any notion of democracy. My involvement has involved leafleting, stalls, blockades, demonstrations hardly terrorism and due to the fact that like many others I have put blood, sweat and tears as well as my sanity into SHAC I take what she is reported to have said very personally. I had did acquire convictions for abstracting electricity (when I wandered into HLS and used the phone), theft (drank a bottle of beer at one of their hospitality suites), obstruction of the highway (when we blocked the A1 with tripods). Hall does not seem to have a problem with the fact that activists at Newchurch were hospitalised by Hall’s thugs or presumably with the fact that a police officer dragged me off the tripod and smashed my leg to a pulp,none of us were using violence and I am pissed off with the fact that although it is people like me who are covered in scars and in pain from injuries from years ago it is US who are deigned to be violent. From an animal rights activist to put the boot in without even bothering to contact representatives of either campaign (to the best of my knowledge) is disgusting. Even the right wing journalist nutters have the common courtesy to ask for comment.
    Until yesturday many of us in the UK were not even aware of Capers in the churchyard although it was published nearly 3 years ago!This is astonishing considering that she has a picture of Yoxall church on the front cover and based the title on the Gladys Hammond incident. For the record those who were sent to prison were NOT sent there for disinterring the corpse because they DID NOT DO IT (one of them was in London at the time for goodness sake), they pleaded guilty to BLACKMAIL (they were ill advised)for running the campaign against the guinea pig farm. In fact it is probably the case that this was a police perpetuated hoax (the lengths they went to are astounding). Of course Hall just decided not to bother asking British activists what happened and simply regurgitated police press releases. This is not acceptable even for mainstream writers let alone someone proporting to be an animal rights activist. I have ordered it as have others and we will be challenging Lee Hall on any indiscrepancies we find as well as carefully considering her arguments, after all she may have some good points. I am presuming that Gary Francione wrote the foreward in good faith.

  31. shankarikali said

    You will stop the torture and killing of animals by torturing and killing people? Impossible. The first thing that must change is the violence that lives within your own mind. Violence cannot be destroyed by using more violence. Violence comes from an area in our brain that is primitive. To overcome this, one must access the higher areas of the brain.

  32. Derek,

    Once again, you are short on the facts. The pending lawsuits against Primarily Primates financed by Peta are not about property rights, but the right for PPI and other sanctuaries to exist. Peta is trying to get a “dangerous animal” law that will prohibit sanctuaries from giving care and comfort to animals that will have no place else to go but to zoos, research labs or an early death. That you would gloss over this fact is either evidence of your ignorance or a sign of your willing support of Peta’s tactics.

    Embarrass you? No Derek, I am still trying to get you to speak the truth. No, you really don’t know why you were dismissed as an attorney for FoA. While insulting your client is by itself a valid reason for dismissal — probably something covered in the first year of law school — it is simply not possible for you to know the reasons why you were dismissed as you did not make the decision nor were the reasons for the decision shared with you.

    Once again you are offering up an unsuported opinion, “…all large animal corporations inevitable come to devote themselves first to donations and self perpetuation (“survival” as Bob called it) and cannot help but let animal interests and animal rights become subordinate to this bottom line.” If there is a Derek fan club, I’m sure they will be impressed with your continuous rhetoric, but then if they are a member of that club, it evidently doesn’t take much to impress them. But if you want to expand your club, for whatever glory you derive from it, how about offering valid premises that support your oft-repeated “conclusion”?

    FoA has survived (so far) these multi-million dollar legal attacks because they are on the right side of the issue — fighting for the rights of animals. FoA risked its bottom line in it fight against US Surgical and its dog labs, and is risking it again in its ongoing fight to save Primarily Primates. FoA could have settled or quit and pocketed a nice chunk of change for its bottom line. But it didn’t and won’t.

    As far as your self-righteous claim of never having involved yourself in a “property” claim to another living being, you fail to state if you ever would. If someone took “your” dog, would you try to get it back? Why? It’s not “yours”. If you need help with that answer, I can supply it. But, you can find the answer simply by being honest with yourself — and for you that would be a good start.

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

  33. Rebecca Wittman said

    Wow — great article. I am forwarding to my sister who is a member of FoA so that hopefully she will direct her donations to a more worthy group. Nothing, nothing, nothing ever happens by politely asking people to be nice. Direct action works because it “forces” people to change and that his the only way the vast majority of people will change. I do not engage in direct action (well, I once confronted a hunter), but I am involved in rescue and I applaud and send my eternal gratitude to those who put their lives on the line for animals.

  34. mary said

    Here are the brave people who man the Sea Shepherd. Paul Watson comments.

    Most of the whalemeat that is so cruelly obtained by these Japanese whalers for ’scientific research’ ends up in supermarkets. I remember protesting in London 40 years ago when the International Commision on Whaling was meeting. It seems that nothing has ever beem achieved to stop the pointless slaughter of our fellow sea dwelling mammals.

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Japanese-Whale-Hunters-And-Protesters-Clash-Ships-Collide-At-Sea/Video/200902215219520?lpos=video_News_in_Video_Home_Region_0&lid=VIDEO_15219520_Japanese_Whale_Hunters_And_Protesters_Clash_Ships_Collide_At_Sea

  35. Derek V. Oatis said

    Bob, your last post provides an opportunity to get back to the Best/Miller article.

    To answer your question, I do consider my dog to be property. If one of my three dogs were stolen- I can pretty much guarantee that I would engage in direct action to get him back. This would probably be the very example that Best would use to support direct action or violent action (the two are not necessarily synonymous). The question of what would you do if your sister or dog were taken and you knew were they were being held? I can guarantee you that my first action would not be to file a lawsuit to demand the return of my property. I would go and free them and would most certainly be willing to use some physical force to do so. I would do this, not because one is my “property” but because both are my family and each I love more than my safety or my freedom.

    I suppose Best/Miller might ask, “If I am willing to do that for my sister or my dog, then why not for someone else’s sister or dog?” It would be a fair question and the answer is long and complicated. My answer, however, would not incorporate any of Lee Hall’s arguments that such actions would ‘diminish’ the kidnapper or objectify them as “scum”.

    Please do not mistake my criticisms of FoA for praise of PETA. I have a very poor view of PETA. My comments were limited to FoA, Ms. Hall and Francione because they are the subject of the Best/Miller article. The fact that I believe that PETA’s actions regarding Primarily Primates were deplorable does not change the fact that all of these legal actions (except perhaps PETA’s first) were battles by those claiming ownership over property. The property in dispute was non-human animals. There are many other sanctuaries which could have and offered to guarantee the well being of many of these animals for the rest of their natural lives.

    I have tremendous respect for those who devote themselves to animal rescue and providing the best lives possible to the “surplus” animals out there. However, just like my actions regarding my dog or FoA’s efforts to secure their property, none of this work has anything to do with animal rights. Whether you call it a “zoo” or a “true sanctuary”; these are nothing but prisons. They may be very pretty prisons, but they are prisons none the less. I work hard to provide each of my rescue ‘pets’ with the best life possible- but I wish I didn’t have to.

    I am grateful for every single animal saved from death or misery. But this is not animal rights and ‘big names’ like PETA, FoA, and Chimp Haven fighting over their property does nothing to advance animal rights. It may make for pretty (or horrible) fundraising photos, but it does nothing but perpetuate the status of humans as masters and owners and non-humans as our chattel.

    As I have stated. I do not, for many reasons, both ethical and strategic, believe violence should be any part for the animal rights movement. I certainly appreciate the incredible frustration of so many that see so much horror continuing everyday and are disgusted by the relative lack of action by the AR ‘movement’. That our efforts to date have accomplished so little does not, necessarily, mean that that the choice of violence offers any improvement (perhaps it may- but not being able to fix your car with a ball peen hammer does not mean that a better alternative to whack it with a sledge hammer).

    I do think that the animal rights corporations out there have an obligation and responsibility to engage these activists and to truly promote animal rights. We all need to scream bloody murder each time PETA or HSUS promotes the ‘humane killing’ of our fellow beings. We need to criticize groups when they devote their resources to legal battles designed to acquire more nonhumans to stock “sanctuaries” and then exploit the images of these beings in mailings, videos, and cute t-shirts for fundraising. We do have an obligation to call out those who glibly dismiss Paul Watson and direct action as “hateful” and then praise horrific organizations such as the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Obviously all these groups are free to pursue these efforts. But please, don’t call it “animal rights”. I believe that Gary Francione is absolutely correct that until we begin to take animal rights seriously (as activists) and utterly abandon welfarist “happy meat” campaigns, we can never expect for others to take animal rights seriously.

    My experience is that if you ask the average Jane on the street what animal rights is their perception is either that animal rights is dog and cat rescue and saving wildlife or that animal rights is PETA. If you ask what PETA is about, the answer is likely to include “hot chicks, pies in face, and humane gassing”. Before we pick up the baseball bats and bricks, can we try to treat animal rights in a serious and consistent way? Can we hold each other accountable and demand that animal rights organizations (if they have a place in this movement) actually back animal rights and animal rights activists? Why would we actually abandon non-violent animal rights activism when we haven’t even tried it yet?

  36. Derek,

    If your initial direct actions at retrieving your dog fail, are you saying you would not institute a direct action involving your legal recourse just so you can say you have never initiated a claim based on property rights? And that such a claim would damage the advancement of animal rights?

    You consider your dog to be property? (“I do consider my dog to be property.” Derek Oatis 02/09/2009) Do you consider your sister property as well?

    This seems bizarre, but I think it is a pattern you often repeat. You are willing to take any position to make a point — no matter how strange the position or irrelevant the point. At one time I expected more of you, but now I am no longer surprised.

    Primarily Primates does not consider the animals, human or non-human, at PPI to be property. Call that Animal Rights 101. It is the law and those willing to exploit them that consider them property. This puts you in rather bad company and isn’t doing anything to boost the membership of your fan club. In fact, I think your dog just quit, and your sister will too (if she ever really joined in the first place.)

    Then you go on to equate sanctuaries to zoos? Now what point are you trying to force? Zoos display animals for profit and allow breeding and commercial trade of their “property.” Sanctuaries do not.

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

  37. Derek V. Oatis said

    My dog is property. He is property because he has no protection to his life or his own interests under our laws. He may be protected indirectly if I wish to assert my ownership rights in a manner that I believe benefits him. I may be kind to my dog and I may treat him as I would a family member, but the fact remains that my dog’s happiness, comfort, and very existence are subject to my whim. If I choose to use the term “companion animal” to refer to my dog, I do nothing but perpetuate a lie and fail to address the reality of our legal system. Whether I am the best guardian and provider for my dogs in the world or whether I am a sadist that takes pleasure from inflicting pain upon them, I remain their owner.

    As an animal rights activist I strive to inform the public as to the protections provided to the interest of non-human in our legal system – zero. I try to explain at every opportunity the status of non-humans in our legal system- they are property. I can love my dogs and try to respect their interests, I cannot, no matter how hard I may wish, bestow them with rights or change their status as property.

    The animals at Primarily Primates are property. They are there because ownership was granted to PPI or FoA. Many are there because FoA filed lawsuits and engaged in legal battles in which it sought judicial recognition and enforcement of its property rights. I do not doubt that you and everyone at FoA and PPI (and there are indeed some great people at PPI) are doing what you are doing because you truly wish to provide these animals (which are under your care and control) the best life possible. However, wishing does not create legal rights for animals.

    To say that FoA “does not consider the animals . . . at PPI to be property” is both dishonest and ignorant. Given that FoA has expended significant amounts of money to demand the return of its property, makes it very clear that it is dishonest for you to now claim that you do not consider them property. Please feel free to post the legal decisions or transcripts which establish that FoA went into court and informed the judge that they did not consider any of the animals they sought to be “property”.

    For a national ‘animal rights’ with a full time legal director to dismiss the real status of these animals and replace this hard reality with some ‘touchy-feely’ notion is frighteningly ignorant. To claim that FoA does not consider these animals to be property may look very nice on a fundraising letter. It looks asinine in a discussion among animal rights activists who are all too aware that all animals are property.

    One of the points of the Best/Miller article is their criticism that most animal rights activists and perhaps all animal rights corporations are unwilling or unable to face the hard realities of what our legal system means for animals and that changing that may require a strategy that is offensive to mainstream corporations. While I strongly disagree that violence is an acceptable means, I do not disagree that the end result will require a fierce honesty on our parts and must result in a drastically different society whose prime driving force is not capitalism.

    Bob, could FoA possibly address the criticism raised by Best/Miller. The above article begins with a picture of Pal Watson holding a harp seal pup. Ms. Hall described this man and this action as “hateful” and criticized it for attempting to reduce those who seek to beat this animal to death as “scum”. Best and Miller would appear to clearly say that Lee’s criticism is absolutely nuts (and traitorous). On this point, I agree with them (presuming that they have used the term “traitor” in the vernacular). While I think that Watson’s actions come pretty close to the line of what is “violence”, I do not believe that it crosses that line. Lee believes that this is hateful. I believe (using Lee’s terminology) that this is one of the most loving acts I can imagine.

    Derek
    pretty friendly with most animals

  38. bholanath said

    Excellent article, thank you.

    hmmmm….isn’t this a lot like the intellectual zionist arguments about BOTTLE ROCKETS?

    Anyway, bottom line: treason is treason is treason. respect is respect.

    we’re in a war (hel-lo!) against psychopaths whose sick path has only one possible ultimate outcome:
    the DESTRUCTION OF ALL LIFE (coming soon to your neighborhood!)

    Viva ALF, ELF, EF!, Sea Shepherds, all warriors for LIFE (human & non-human)!

  39. Sorry Derek, you don’t get to define for the whole world which animals are property and which are not. As an individual you may choose or not choose how to treat “your” animals. As a representative of the legal system, you are free to make other, but more constrained choices.

    Again, the animals at Primarily Primates are not property to either PPI or FoA, and are not treated as such. The attempts to get them returned to their home at PPI is not motivated by or related to their legal status as property. Clearly FoA and PPI are aware of “hard realities of what our legal system means for animals” as it was through the legal system that the animals were removed from PPI.

    Perhaps you are just confused. The “legal system” is not the whole world, just an institutional system put in place to make the world conform to its rules (rules created by those in power). And you as an attorney and an officer of the court are sworn to uphold those rules and at the same time make a buck off the often helpless victims. (You are not sworn to make a buck off them — you do that voluntarily.)

    Though rhetoric, not argument, you infer that FoA has a “touchy-feely notion” about animals. At first I thought you were referring to the ‘touchy-feely’ picture at the top of this page — of Paul Watson holding a seal. But in re-reading your post you appear to be referring to nothing more substantial than your insubstantial opinion.

    Please don’t try to put words into other people’s mouths. You have enough trouble with the words coming out of your own.

    I have given you two examples that FoA is willing to risk its bottom line in the interests of animals, yet you have persisted in lumping FoA in with big-moneyed groups that clearly protect and enhance their bottom line at the expense of animals. I am inferring here, in case you don’t get it, that you lack credibility — that you make up things. You criticized Dustin without having the slightest evidence or knowledge of his motivations in speaking up for FoA. And if anyone is taking the time to read your posts, they can find many more examples of your “imagination”.

    I regret having to talk down to you, but it is of necessity that I do so.

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

  40. As Raven#24 writes: People change their minds.

    Re: Bob’s comment (#22) that includes my review of Capers from February 19, 2007, I’ve changed my mind, or rather, evolved, in several ways since then. One of the ways my thoughts have evolved is due not to animal rights but to my reading of Sam Harris and others who have helped me understand that the world is not a place that will necessarily listen to reason. People who want to exploit and kill are not necessarily open to any kind of negotiation. And they’re not going to leave their livelihood and beliefs behind and walk away quietly because you think they’re wrong.

    I was a fundamentalist pacifist for most of my adult life. I simply don’t see that that will work, though. And the history of social justice movement certainly hasn’t demonstrated that it is likely to start with what is the largest, lengthiest battle ever waged against any population (sentient nonhumans).

    Do I agree with the language of the personal attacks in this article? I can’t. And I certainly see how it has spawned the type of comments thus far.

    But what I do agree with is the message that, regardless of your personal discomfort with the idea of violence or a definition of direct action that includes property damage or sabotage, or whether you’d give a penny to such an effort, the people carrying out these actions are not your enemies. In fact, your real enemies are strengthened when you attack them.

  41. Reuben said

    I would agree that the attempts to return the animals to PPI were not related to their status as property. Those attempts were clearly related to their status as money-makers; the more hard luck stories would have meant the $$$ flowing in when you got those animals back. No matter that they were happily and safely ensconced in MUCH better homes than they would have had at PPI. That was of absolutely no consequence to FoA.

    As to the pissing contest between Derek and Bob – well, enjoy yourselves, guys. No one really cares and you are taking focus away from an excellent piece by Steve and Jason. Animals are suffering while Feral and Hall (and their boys, Bob and Dustin) spend their energies criticizing those who go out on the world to try and stop some of that misery. Frankly, now that I think of it, they are not even worth the time it will take me to hit “submit comment” -

  42. Anonymous said

    Wow, this article has obviously stirred up a lot of emotion… I’ve been vegan for 8 years now and it’s an integral part of my identity so much so that I see all of you as “my people” and I feel close to and identify with others in the movement much more than even with my own family.

    That said, I think the saddest aspect of these diatribes is that we’re attacking each other. Before I even get into the whole direct action vs. pacifist movement thing, what everyone needs to understand is that all activists are unique and will approach animal rights differently. Everyone simply isn’t wired the same and that’s just the way it is. But everyone IS making a difference one way or another, and that is something to be encouraged.

    I personally don’t believe violence to be the solution to all humankind’s evils, as implied by this article. Does anyone seriously think they can take on the military-industrial complex violently and win? Who are they kidding? They will be crushed. Already the FBI regards the ALF as a domestic terror organization to be considered as dangerous as Al-Qaeda! A.R. activists are going to jail today on harassment and felony property damage charges for longer than most people go to jail for second degree murder. They have a whole slew of shiny new special laws to crush the movement with. Again, do people really think you can take on these people violently and win? The powers that be would just LOVE it if the A.R. movement becomes a violent movement. That’s exactly the excuse they need to lock up everyone and throw away the key.

    And no, I don’t believe the Black Panthers won civil rights for black people. Does anyone really think the majority threw up their arms and hid under the bed because of the oh-so-scary Black Panthers? Does anyone really believe that? South Africa’s tiny majority easily subjugated a majority of black people that rioted all they wanted. The civil rights movement was won because more and more people realized it was the right thing to do. Imagine if instead of civil rights marches, there were violent attacks on people and property. You can bet the civil rights movement would have been stalled and there would be serious counter-attacks and militarization of a counter-force. It would have been a violent, bloody mess.

    Now, I don’t–and can’t–ever condemn non-violent direct action. You can bet that if it was me in that lab being experimented on, I would bless the ALF angels that rescued me. But I think it’s important not to cross the line and become a truly violent movement. Go in, rescue, and get out of there. Destruction of property not only endangers other life forms that could be left behind (including insects and small mammals) but is plain silly. They have money. They will buy new test tubes. But if you run off with their “prized test subject” years of research could be lost. And the authorities and press won’t be able to make as big a deal if there is no property damage. AND more people will sympathize with ALF rescues. Think about it. That’s smart action. And as far as firebombing that researcher’s car? Yeah his company or insurance will buy him a new one. And you get 10 years solitary in the slammer for nothing. But leaflet outside his home, or better: leaflet outside his/her friends’ homes, outside his/her children’s schools. Speak up in front of everyone at his/her church. Nobody likes that. It’s embarrassing as hell and will achieve much more.

    Pacifism is efficient. I’ve been involved with a small and very new organization that has converted 12,000 people from a meat diet already. At 100 animals per person per year, that’s 1.2 million animals saved each and every year–year after year after year after year. Compare: if you can leaflet 300 people an hour on a busy street/college (very doable!) and say 1% go vegan because of that = 3 people. You’ve just saved 300 animals for the year in one hour. Do one hour a week at different colleges and how many animals will you save a year? So please do not take this holier-than-thou attitude towards pacifists, whose efforts have built this movement from day one.

    So in ending, while I personally think both pacifist and smart non-violent direct action movements serve a purpose, I believe a violent movement will achieve little–and will be crushed in no time–benefiting no one. Be smart, act smart, and you will benefit animals.

    However, for those of you that do advocate violent action, I recommend you do not post publicly with your true names because you’ll most certainly get yourself on an FBI watch-list which is never a good thing.

    Until all are free.

  43. Derek V. Oatis said

    Please don’t anyone worry about talking down to me. At 5’7”, I’m quite used to it.

    Bob, I will try again to bring this discussion back to an examination of specific actions, the efficacy of direct action and the line between non-violent and violent.

    I have read much of Ms. Halls’ writings. However, I am still uncertain as to what she considers to be violence and whether all actions in violation of law are per se violent or at least inappropriate. I was not putting words in Ms. Hall’s mouth when I stated that she referred to Paul Watson’s placing his body between a whale and a harpoon to be a “hateful” act. That is her description in Caper’s in the Churchyard. I did go back and read each of her references to Watson. I believe that each quote of Watson she uses is taken out of context or is only a potion of a larger statement. In each case, the context and the entirety of his statement convey a much less violent meaning. I would agree that much of Watson’s statement tend toward the flamboyant. And while I appreciate that straw men much easier adversaries, I am always bothered y the manipulation of quotes in a way that alters their meaning from the speaker’s full statement. This is a tactic of Rush Limbaugh. It should not be ours.

    Ms. Hall employs a bizarre double standard illustrated by her criticism for Watson and her praise for the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC). She criticizes Watson for choosing easy, obvious and horrendous ‘targets’. Because of this, Watson is not engaged in “radical activism” which address the “root of the problem” according to Hall. Capers at 137. Yet throughout their works Hall and FoA sing the praises of SPLC; a group that has amassed a fortune and whose leader and founder is paid far more that any civil rights worker. SPLC’s entire fortune is built upon going after a handful of uneducated and impoverished klan members and skin heads. The SPLC has seldom challenged corporate or institutional racism or criticized ‘mainstream political figures’. While violent actions by grammar school drop-out skin heads is bad, they are hardly the “root of the problem”.

    I believe that capitalism and hierarchy are the “root problem” which stokes racism and divisiveness. A quick glance at the bottom line of SPLC and Morris Dees reveals why that group has never spoken ill of capitalism or privilege. I am not criticizing Ms. Hall for not casting her net wide enough to capture each hypocrisy or ‘no-radical’ activist. I am criticizing her for casting her net very selectively and in a manner that (like SPLC) skewers only the fringes and the least powerful while being oh so careful to not ruffle the feathers of the fat, wealthy, and largely white elite.

    I do understand and appreciate Ms. Hall’s point that the AR ‘battle’ (excuse the expression) is not a battle since the ‘other side’ is about 98.5% of the human population. I genuinely believe that the means for change is persuasion, education, and transformation. I (in most circumstances) oppose coercion. I oppose it on ethical grounds and on strategic grounds (I don not believe we have the numbers to coerce change).

    There are times when coercion may be appropriate or necessary. As we all discussed on Vegan Views, I would not follow a trapper into the woods because I would be afraid that we would come upon one of his traps containing a still living animal. If I put myself in that situation, I cannot say that I would not be obligated to try and save that animal even if it meant using physical force.

    I ask anyone from FoA to explain why FoA was glad to support (arguably) illegal, direct action against hunters at Bluff Point in Groton,CT and whether these direct actions were ‘violent’, coercive or ‘hateful’. Quite a few years ago FoA led a campaign against the Bluff Point deer hunt. Along with protest, this campaign included a number of activists entering the park at 3:30am to await the arrival of hunters. At dawn the activists spread out in small groups and confronted hunters, often putting themselves between the hunters and the deer. Obviously, some of the hunters became quite irate and belligerent.

    For most of the morning these activist were able to elude police and the dogs used to track activists. One group was able to videotape a ‘freshly’ shot doe. They videotaped the hunter dragging the corpse while the doe’s fawn followed behind and through the trail of blood left by her mother. The hunter actually began throwing snowballs at the fawn to shoo her away because he realized how ‘bad’ the image was.

    After their release from jail these activists were greeted with gratitude, praise and warmth by Priscilla Feral. The video tape and stills from it were used by FoA in a number of forums.

    My question to FoA – what is FoA’s position now in regard to this direct action? It was very similar to Paul Watson’s tactics criticized by Lee Hall. I believe it was non-violent, but it was (arguably) illegal and one could argue that since it involved a bunch of folks with a bunch of big guns, it was potentially dangerous if not deadly. Is FoA wiling to simply discuss the merits or demerits of its own actions? Can we take a break from the name calling to actually discuss the things that we have done together.

    While it is easy to dismiss Best as a “scary guy” or try to discredit Watson as a “swashbuckler”, are these lines really that obvious? It is relatively easy to criticize a small group of young people we have barely if ever met, but how would Ms. Hall characterize FoA’s own direct action, (arguably) illegal, and coercive campaign?

  44. Derek,

    You may try to “bring this discussion back to an examination of specific actions, the efficacy of direct action and the line between non-violent and violent”, but not without first apologizing for your wrong-headed remarks about Friends of Animals and its staff. You cannot believe your personal, unsubstantiated attacks were taken as a sincere invitation for dialogue.

    Was it just coincidence that someone identifying themself as “Dave” and falsely identifying themself as an employee of FoA makes false and irrelevant allegations concerning FoA, and then you show up on this thread? If you know the identity of Dave, please reveal it. If you don’t, then I suppose it’s one more think you don’t know.

    I came to this list to defend the reputations of FoA and its employees. To that extent, my job here is largely done and Reuben can feel a rush of relief.

    Derek, you are a self-made irrelevancy — a voluntary but unessential cog in the US legal system. For while the wheels of Justice turn slow but grind small, the legal system grinds at a very fast clip. And the part of the process you seem to enjoy is the transfer of wealth from the victims of the system to your ever broadening bottom line — openly bragging of the expensive suits and shoes you buy.

    Neither PPI nor FoA are willing participants in the legal system that removed the animals from PPI. (And no Reuben the animals are not money-makers but money-losers). Let’s use your (Derek’s) example of human slavery to make the next point. At the time when slavery was legal in the South “imagine” that a slave-owner decided to free his slaves. He gave them a choice. They were free to go, but they could also choose to stay and work on the land with the fruits of their labor to be solely owned by them. In essence a sanctuary was created — despite it limitations — to leave the sanctuary meant the possibility of being hunted down and killed by either the government or other slave-owners. And in essence this is the same type of sanctuary that was provided to the animals at PPI. In both cases, the sanctuary given was an umbrella of protection from the prevailing legal system and legal status that would otherwise be forced upon them.

    Now Peta comes along, and through a variety of legal maneuvers and deals exposes the animals at PPI to the same dangerous legal system that considers them property. No longer protected from the legal system, FoA and PPI rise to the animals’ defense — not to make money, but to spend its bottom line to help ensure the survival of the entire private sanctuary network. To keep the legal system that defines animals as property out of the lives of these animals.

    You infer that FoA’s actions to protect these animals from the legal system that oppresses them may one day again lead to the legalization of slavery in the US. Apparently you are overlooking the subtlety between working with the legal system versus working within the legal system. In case you missed it, it’s about the meaning of the two letters “in”. Okay to be a little less subtle, it’s about those two letters attached to the word “with”. Okay, just count to the 15th word (remove your shoes — that’s what I did) of the above referenced sentence. Oh for goodness sake why am I even bothering?

    The point being that Friends of Animals is working “within” the legal system, not “with” it.

    You continue to equate private sanctuaries with zoos, and thoughtlessly opine that the maintaining of private sanctuaries has nothing to do with animal rights. Yet, if every private sanctuary was closed, and each animal within was either returned to a research lab, a zoo or killed, your position would dictate that the rights of these animals were not violated – that not one animal rights activist should rise up in protest.

    You can’t cite one possible example of not putting words in someone’s mouth as proof that you don’t put words in someone’s mouth. Here is an example of you putting words in someone else’s mouth: “For a national ‘animal rights’ with a full time legal director to dismiss the real status of these animals and replace this hard reality with some ‘touchy-feely’ notion is frighteningly ignorant.” Is there a place in “Capers” that you wish to point out Hall dismissing the real status of these animals and making touchy feely references? Even in a recession, is not a picture worth a thousand words?

    Now on to the hunt. Your premise that participating in a direct action against a hunt that does not endanger either the hunters nor the general public is an act of violence is unacceptable. The conclusions that you then attempt to dervive from using such a flawed premise are invalid. I suppose the movivation for your twisted logic was to show that FoA has supported violent action in the past, but has now changed its positon — that’s simply not true.

    I was, as you recall involved in a similar “non-violent” action and was arrested for it. The difference being that I didn’t get any vegan cookies for my efforts delivered by you – I suspect you ate them all; the evidence of which can still be viewed today. Another difference being is that I never offer up my arrest as a crendential for my support of animal rights.

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

  45. James Crump said

    I would like to make a few of points:

    First, the animal movement has never made vegan education, in its various manifestations, its primary mode of campaigning. Quite the contrary. It has always marginalized veganism in favor of regulatory welfarist campaigns which seek to make institutionalized animal slavery more “humane”. In light of that fact, the claim that vegan outreach has “failed” as a movement strategy is vacuous as it is grounded in no empirical evidence.

    Second, the welfarist movement is the social mechanism that reinforces the dominant (speciesist) paradigm which everyone accepts. A constitutive part of vegan education – which seeks to effect a paradigm shift – therefore must be a critique of this paradigm, including groups like PeTA which promote regulatory measures that create more cost-effective and more socially acceptable animal slavery. Indeed, in so far as self-identifying animal rights advocates do not extricate themselves from the welfarist paradigm, which does nothing but reify the condition of animals as property and commodities (by making animal slavery more efficient and by providing people with elitist excuses as to why they needn’t go vegan), then to that extent they need look no further than their own activism to explain why we are not making incremental progress toward abolition.

    Third, while I agree that some people will never go vegan, I do not think this has any adverse implications for the idea that vegan education should be our primary mode of campaigning. Instead of pitching our message to the consumers of “happy” animal products and/or to the hardcore speciesists, let’s pitch it to all those who are concerned about animal ethics and who would go vegan if only they were presented with a clear, coherent, and compelling vegan message. Once we have recruited all those who are amenable to vegan education, then we can worry about the hardcore speciesists. But in thinking that we should devise a strategy to deal with the latter before we have recruited every single one of the former, and in condemning vegan education before it has even been tried, we are not being hard-headed and realistic. We are being foolish and illogical.

  46. James,

    Thank you for your refreshing addition on the importance of veganism as direct action. Veganism as direct action is an important program within FoA. FoA is not willing to wait for the above described legal system to take action. While not everyone may one day be vegan, there’s no way of telling who they are. FoA has a webite dedicated to veganism as direct action at http://www.veganmeans.com. FoA even offers a pin and T-shirt, “Veganism is Direct Action” as well as two vegan cookbooks, a vegan starter’s guide and vegan restaurant guides.
    And FoA never promotes humane meat.

    I hope this thread continues along in this direction.

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

  47. Derek V. Oatis said

    May I ask a question of those who support the Best/Miller thesis?

    First, as I have stated, although I largely agree with the criticisms of Ms. Hall and her work I also believe that non-violence is the only acceptable means of activisms. What constitutes “violence” is open to some debate but I believe that any threat or conduct of physical harm against a sentient being is “violence”.

    I believe the use of the term “war on animals” is inaccurate. There is no “war” against non-human animals. There is enslavement, exploitation, and horrific violence; but this is not war. I am also uncomfortable with any pronouncement of what actions were responsible for civil rights progress, suffrage or other human advancements. All of these events are extremely complex and developed over generations. None of use can say with certainly which of the infinite variables was the “cause” of progress.

    One small example – I believe that most would acknowledge that the cold war and the use by the Soviet Union and its ‘communist satellites’ of images of violent racism and oppression in the US for ‘propaganda’ purposes aided the civil rights movement by creating an embarrassment for the US. This may have only been a small factor but it is not something that we can replicate in the AR movement since there is not a global force or superpower to ‘embarrass us’ for our exploitation of animals.

    Similarly, I think there is a big difference between the prior struggles described by Best and Miller and AR in terms of who the ‘other side’ is. During slavery, only a minority of folks owned slaves. While many non-slave holders may have ‘benefited’ from this exploitation, many others saw slavery as an economic threat to the value of their labor. While I am no expert on the Civil War, I think it’s clear that it was not exclusively about slavery and that emancipation was as much of an act of justice as it was an act of political expedience.

    Similarly, if we examine the women’s right movement or the suffrage movement, the beneficiaries of those efforts constituted the majority of the US population (however disenfranchised they may have been).

    My question is, when we talk about MDA, who is the “other side”, who is the “target” of these actions?

    Best/Miller state that the “ALF is not a terrorist organization because (1) they never physically injure people, and (2) they never target anyone but those directly involved in the war against animals.”. While I would certainly not call ALF a “terrorist” organization, I must question who are the people that are “directly involved in the war on animals”?

    It would seem that any person who pays a butcher to kill a cow and to hack off a piece of the corpse is “directly involved”. Certainly when my neighbor selects a lobster from a tank at the supermarket and then goes home to boil that creature alive, she is “directly involved”. A group of kids fishing along the bank of a river are “directly involved”. The guy who slaps on aftershave produced through horrible suffering by ‘lab animals’ would seem to be “directly involved”.

    What about the staff of PETA or HSUS? PETA gave a fucking award to Temple Grandin, someone no different than a concentration camp designer and who has made a living creating ‘nice’, efficient, and more profitable ways to end the lives of thinking and feeling creatures. Is PETA now “directly involved”. What about HSUS’s support of the California “happy meat” initiative? Is HSUS “directly involved” because it helped pass a proposition supported by dozens of animal killers? Obviously these ‘farms’ suppoted Prop 2 because they thought it would benefit them, grow their business, and allow them to enslave and kill more animals.

    It seems to me inaccurate and perhaps disingenuous to claim that ALF or SHAC’s “war” is in anyway limited in scope. As Best/Miller state, vegans make up less than 1.5% of the population. Considering some of these folks may be vegans for health reasons and still wear leather or use no food products made from animals and that some of these vegans are welfarists who support ‘humane killing’, it seems the other side (the ‘enemy’ in this “war”) is just about fucking everyone.

    Unlike the civil rights movement or other human liberation moments, I’m not sure what sense it makes to start a “war” when the other side is just about everyone on the planet. The SHAC movement certainly ‘targeted’ individuals and business that were not the folks that did the actual killing or ever laid hands on any of the animals.

    I’m not trying to be a smartass here, but the way this “war” is described by Best/Miller sounds a hell of a lot like George Bush’s war on terror. That plan was ‘let’s just start killing mideastern looking folks’, screw any sort of strategy’.

    I do believe that violence is ethically appropriate in many circumstances. I’m not sure that I can be convinced that there is such a thing as a “just war”. However, even Best/Miller seem to acknowledge that there is ‘justified’ violence applied intelligently and there is violence which is done stupidly and without justification. If I’m being asked to enlist in this war or at least get out of the way, can someone please explain who the enemy is and why we might target the vivisector torturing a primate but not my neighbor who applies pesticide to their lawn?

    Derek

  48. Albert said

    I believe that pacifism in several ways is out of the question. Unfortunatelly, in the time we live in, a pacifist approach will have no effect on the people or in the big corporations. Im sorry to say this but the truth is that the achievement of animal liberation by peaceful means is long gone. Action is needed, and not only against the corporations, but society needs to be exposed to what this corporations really do, hoping that this will generate a social awakening.

    Also, society has to be confronted with the crisis that we have created, corporations react to the demand of consumers, as long as we as consumers allow these issues to continue corporations will not change: killing and exploitation of animals, destruction of the environment, depletion of natural resources, extinction of animals, global warming, and the growth of poverty in the world, are all aspects that as a race we have created. A pacifist approach might work with time, but lets be honest this is the one thing we dont have.

    I do feel that the animal movement has been weakened, groups like Peta have become very political, and their concerns have shifted from the liberation of animals to the preservation of the institution. However, we should all begin to act in the education of people and the transformation of our culture. And I believe that the time for this change is now, the current crisis has greatly damaged the reputation of capitalism and big corporations, education of people and destruction of old paradigms is something that we have a chance of achieving; unfortunatelly actions are not taken. I feel that people like Best and Watson have become rare, people that really act and not just talk and complain about things. A change is not going to come, we have to make it happen. And unfortunatelly people that are willing to educate the public and take action on the struggle are in the minority of the movement. May be many will switch to a vegan diet, but how many will really commit to the movement of animals, and commitment is the one thing that is lacking.

  49. Paul said

    Perfect example from personal experience about Vegetables, Class, and Ego. I guess all of these thoughts were floating around in my head from my day yesterday, and I thought I would share them.

    My wife and I had to cook for a homeless/drug addiction day program…It was going to be for about 20 people, and it was kind of sprung on the both of us last minute to prepare. I had to cook 2 trays of lasagna and fast! From food shopping in low income areas for so many years, and having plenty of friends that had parents that were in a “bad place”, I learned that low income people tend to eat lots of low grade red meat, and soda (another group are lower middle class, and soccer/hockey moms). Even in my father’s family, we were always eating Spaghetti and meatballs. I suppose the majority of people eat this way, in this country, and even around the world come to think of it? Obviously this macho meat loving spans all classes, and even countries.

    Jason, I have to admit that I had a liberal impulse while at the supermarket… GUILTY as charged. I would never buy red meat, or ground turkey, but it found its way into my cart, but my conscience couldn’t handle another isle looking down at it, so I traded convenience for principles, or meat for vegetables.

    I knew the clients were going to give my wife a hard time if she handed them an eggplant, zucchini, and mushroom lasagna (which they did worst than we anticipated)My wife said the looks on their faces were complete disappointment and one person actually said “you struck out”.

    Back to the supermarket <—————

    I almost completed my shop with meat in wagon, thinking to myself, well…let me cater to their sensibilities and make them happy, while getting my wife off the hook. I RESISTED the urge. I put back the meat and loaded up on vegetables. Needless to say, either I am born to cook lasagna, or the clients were born to eat vegetables. They cleared the trays, and had seconds.

    People need real life exposure. You can’t read why being a vegetarian is more satisfying all the time, unless you actually try the difference. Experience is always the best teacher.

  50. Derek V. Oatis said

    I believe there are ways that direct action, and even tough (or militant direct action) can be more than a form of coercion and actually be a tool of education and persuasion.

    As I have posted previously, I was involved in and (arguably) illegal direct action to ‘sabotage’ a deer hunt at Bluff Point State Park. In this action a number of us went into the park and ‘engaged’ hunters who were there to kill deer. It was a tough (by my wimpy white-bread standards) action.

    During this time I worked for a small company building sport cars. This was a very ‘blue collar’ place. My first week there I was approached by a fellow worker who said to me, “Derek, we don’t get you- you’re into women, cars, and beer, but what the fuck is this vegetarian shit?”. My closest friend at this company was a machinist/welder who also happened to be an avid bow hunter. While we obviously didn’t agree on everything, we were friends and respected each other.

    Anyway, the Bluff Point action generated a lot of press and tv coverage. My welder friend saw the tv news pieces which include an interview with me after our action. When I came back to work, he pulled me aside and told me that he really respected what I did. I think that he had assumed that most animal rights folks were arm chair activists that knew nothing about the ‘real world’ and who did noting but whine and shop at Whole Foods. He respected the fact that I was at least as dedicated to my beliefs as he was to his and that I was willing to put my ‘money where my mouth was’ and actually engage in the ‘rough and tumble’.

    My welder friend’s daughter became a vegetarian. He shared with me that because of our relationship, he was more supportive of his daughter’s decision.

    I know this is only one infinitesimally small story. In know that this is in no way a strategy to change the world. My point is that the fact that animal rights activists were willing to go into the woods and put their own safety on the line earned the respect of a hunter. While he didn’t change is lifestyle, he opened his mind enough to allow his daughter to follow a path that he did not.

    Direct action is not necessarily (as Lee Hall would have us believe) a means of degrading the ‘other side’. Direct action can be a way of communicating that our commitment and our passion are as deep as any other’s and that we are willing to put our own safety and freedom on the line. Within a certain context, this is an expression that can earn respect, even from those that do not agree with us. And respect is how to begin a dialogue.

  51. Oh Derek,

    Please cite your source for the comment that “Direct action is not necessarily (as Lee Hall would have us believe) a means of degrading the ‘other side’.” Seems like you are continuing to put words in other people’s mouths with still no regard for what is coming out of yours.

    Still waiting to hear your argument for your conclusion that all large animal groups protect their bottom line.

    Are we going to hear more stories about your rough and tumble life? I was hoping we could be spared anymore of those.

    If you can’t meet that simple request, at least don’t conflate militancy with violence — one can be violent without being militant.

    Einstein said, “Our futures are directed downward.” Seems you are ahead of your time.

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

  52. Derek V. Oatis said

    Bob,

    As far as your comment:
    “Please cite your source for the comment that “Direct action is not necessarily (as Lee Hall would have us believe) a means of degrading the ‘other side’.” ”

    I have already done that in my previous post. Please see pp. 65-66 of Capers in the Churchyard, where Ms. Hall states, referring to Paul Watson’s putting “his body between a harpoon and a whale”:

    “It is this good-against-evil template that environmental and animal advocacy militants apply to a variety of circumstances. The “other side” has a cruel glint in its collective eye; it’s presumably impervious to either kindness or wisdom and it must be found and attacked. A scan of the press reports, graffiti, and e-mail alerts shows authoritarian activism typically setting our two main points. 1.. . .cruelty to animals goes on with impunity; and 2. Now the scum will pay.”

    These are Lee’s words and I believe they are an example of her glibly dismissive tone throughout her book and horrifically simplistic characterization of the “other side” (animal activists). While I do not wholly disagree with Ms. Hall that we should show respect to the “other side” (although I disagree with her as to how one might demonstrate respect and the weighing of different interests)I find it ironic that, at the same time, she shows such little respect for activists.

    As I have said, I disagree with much of what Best/Miller have written. However, there is much I do agree with and many criticisms that they have leveled at FoA and Ms. Hall that have merit and deserve discussion. I have debated Francione and defended some of FoA’s programs. In that specific debate, Francione was correct.
    http://veganfreakradio.com/index.php?id=96
    Again, in that “debate”, despite the fact that Gary and I maintained a most respectful tone, the FoA representatives engaged in little but name calling and insult.

    We learn from criticism and occasionally learn that we are wrong (in my case- it’s quite often that I learn I’m wrong). Bob, calling me names does not change Best and Miller’s critique. Priscilla Feral’s disturbingly sexist and dismissive insult in post# 9 does nothing but engender greater hostility. I regret my tone began so sarcastically. However, I think that the Best/Miller article and their critique of Ms. Hall’s work deserve discussion.

    Derek

  53. Herb said

    http://www.criticalanimalstudies.org/JCAS/Journal_Articles_download/Issue_8/Colling71_78.pdf

  54. Herb said

    Sorry, clicked the wrong button there – wanted to preface that message with ‘here’s another analysis of Lee Hall’s book, recently published in the Journal for Critical Animal Studies.

  55. Derek,

    All Hall is stating is that direct-action need not degrade the ‘other side’ (animal exploiters). And you want to take Hall to task for that? And you call that a “dismissive tone”?

    Citing your own personal experiences and feelings about the ‘other side’ hardly means that at least some animal rights activists, at some times, treat the ‘other side’ as ’scum’. I believe this is a fact: both of us have been together (hard to imagine) at non-violent demos and witnessed animal rights activists treating the ‘other side’ as ’scum’. As you might recall, you have never witnessed me doing so, and I am willing to say the same for you. But you can’t use that broad brush to paint all animal rights activists in our own saintly hue.

    Is Hall criticial of “activists” who treat the ‘other side’ as ’scum’? Yes. Whatever is your point? As to post #9, you appear to be playing the sexism card — it’s a gender neutral comment. My point, you seem to be making unreasonable statements against FoA and its staff. As to name calling, I can’t remember any good ones I’ve called you lately, but clearly your name calling and personal attacks are well documented in the above. Yes, I use ridicule to call attention to your foolishness, as you seem unable to respond to reasonable requests.

    Here’s your chance. Please give the reasoning behind your belief, “all large animal corporations inevitable (sic) come to devote themselves first to donations and self perpetuation and cannot help but let animal interests and animal rights become subordinate to this bottom line.” And why do you continue to lump FoA within that select group? Once in a discussion with me, you described yourself to me as a rationalist. Then you should be able to give rational reasons for your beliefs. For example, I take it you don’t believe in Hell, as you find no rational reasons or evidence of its existence — however on the road to Hell you appear to be heading, using the word Hell in its ‘vernacular’. You are rattling on the gates of Hell. Why are you so eager to enter?

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

  56. bill said

    Bob, if you think FoA differ from other groups in not making AR less important than their bottom line, then why do you and Priscilla pull in very large salaries? The ~180k you make together is a considerable sum, and considering that the animals need every resources we have, how do you justify your own bottom line over them?

  57. Derek V. Oatis said

    Bob,

    This is silly. I agreed with Best and Miller’s criticisms of FoA and Ms. Hall. Ther article was a criticism of FoA and Ms. Hall. Why doesn’t FoA spend some time discussing those criticism, instead of simply having its employees gush about how swell Lee is or have Priscilla engage in sexist insults.

    Yes, Priscilla saying that Best has his “knickers” to tight is sexist (it’s not playing the sexism card when it is an accurate criticisms of sexism). “Knickers” is the term used to refer (usually) to women’s underwear. The equivalent (for this side of the pond) of staying that Best is wearing ‘panties’. To insult someone by making reference to them as a women is sexist. Priscilla is not stupid and knows what she says. I find it ironic that she has spent so much energy criticizing PETA for their sexist campaigns (and rightly so), but has no qualms using crass sexism to insult a man (and women). This is the feminism of convenience not principle. I wonder how much more effective FoA could be if Priscilla did not spent so much time stifling disagreement, alienating friends, and burning bridges with activists?

    How about FoA’s relationship to the Animal Rights Front? What great sin did the president of ARF commit against FoA (beside maybe saying that Ms. Hall is not always correct)?

    Please go back to my first point in these comments. I criticized Best and Miller for lumping Fancione in with FoA and Ms. Hall. Take a look again at my link to the Vegan Freaks debate. While Francione certainly had criticisms for FoA, he wrote respectfully and attempted to engage in a dialogue. Why the hell did FoA destroy its relationship with Francione? He used to write for Action Line and was a speaker at FoA events. Best and Miller criticize Francione for his opposition to violence. However, this is not my criticism or, I presume FoA’s. Why did FoA burn this bridge?

    As for my criticism of FoA’s corporate mentality. I could go in to many details, finances, accountant embezzlement, PPI expenditures. A more simple and direct example would be simply to point to you and your wife’s (Priscilla Feral’s) combined salaries and expenses. I am willing to bet that if you included travel, lodging (Priscilla does not stay in a lot of Motel 6s), limos, restaurant meals and other expenses, you and Priscilla pull down a household income of more than $200,000. Your salaries alone are in excess of $180,000. I, for one, think that is obscene.

    What is really amazing is that you spent your comments here criticizing the income I obtained in my career and my expensive suits and shoes. For fuck sakes Bob, the only thing I ever said about my suits (which as an attorney I’m stuck wearing) is that it pisses me off that I have to often spend more for my synthetic/vegan suits than folks pay for silk or wool. The only shoes I’ve ever worn to work are vinyl shoes from Pay Less.

    Sorry to disappoint Bob. Maybe if my wife, Lisa and I made what you and Priscilla paid yourself from donations, I could avoid nicer threads. I may have a bunch of criticisms for PETA, but you to could learn a bit from the compensation that Newkirk and others limit themselves to.

    Bob,you can have the last word. This is tiresome and is a disservice to a forum that should be spent talking about Best and Miller’s points. I would be glad to address those because there is so much to discuss. If you truly want me to disclose all details known to me about FoA, please send written correspondence waiving any duty of confidentiality I may have. Otherwise, please do not ask me to disclose details known to me or criticize me for not making such a disclosure. Thank you.

    Derek

  58. Wow, don’t get your knickers in a knot. That’s an expression commonly used in the early 1900’s in the US and can refer to male or female garments. In fact it’s probably easier for you to buy boy’s knickers today than female’s. Even if you didn’t know this, for a remark to be termed sexist, the sole quality that it refers to one sex and not another is not enough to label it as such. You are trivializing the feminist movement in doing so.

    Brilliant strategy giving me the last word. Now you won’t have to back up any of your allegations or respond to future challenges. So you never could answer why you think FoA is only interested in protecting its bottom line. Or just who is Dave? Or why did you attack Dustin? Now you have thrown out (or up) some new allegations you won’t have to document (“you could go on”). While these rhetorical devices might work in a courtroom, they don’t work here.

    And of course, no, you don’t know what Priscilla and I take from or give to FoA. Neither can you honestly say you know that about Newkirk. You are just trying to get away using it in an argument without a concern for uncovering and addressing the truth.

    I still consider the president of ARF (if it’s Bill M.) to be my friend. Until he tells me otherwise, I will continue to do so. He never returned my last attempts to contact him. Bill taught me to never to talk behind someone’s back — and he did it with just a single look that I still can see today. So this forum is a great place for me and others to talk to someone’s face rather than behind their back as you have chosen to do, and will continue to do.

    Others on this forum had a chance to respond to the Best/Miler criticisms, but even with your goading, they chose not to. Don’t blame that one on me — everyone is free not to read my posts. You couldn’t generate an interest in the criticisms no matter how you fanned the flames.

    If you want to save money on your suits, try shopping in the Boys Department.

    Bob Orabona
    Friends of Animals

  59. warwak said

    Over 100 years ago Darwin saw Steve and Jason coming when he wrote, “As man advances in civilization, and small tribes are united into larger communities, the simplest reason would tell each individual that he ought to extend his social instincts and sympathies to all the members of the same nation, though personally unknown to him. This point being once reached, there is only an artificial barrier to prevent his sympathies extending to the men of all nations and races. If, indeed, such men are separated from him by great differences in appearance or habits, experience unfortunately shows us how long it is, before we look at them as our fellow-creatures. Sympathy beyond the confines of man, that is, humanity to the lower animals, seems to be one of the latest moral acquisitions. It is apparently unfelt by savages, except towards their pets. How little the old Romans knew of it is shown by their abhorrent gladiatorial exhibitions. The very idea of humanity, as far as I could observe, was new to most of the Gauchos of the Pampas. This virtue, one of the noblest with which man is endowed, seems to arise incidentally from our sympathies becoming more tender and more widely diffused, until they are extended to all sentient beings. As soon as this virtue is honored and practiced by some few men, it spreads through instruction and example to the young, and eventually becomes incorporated in public opinion”

    Darwin saw what others can not see to this very today. We need more vegan teachers like Steve and Jason.

    Gary Francione argues abolition vs welfare with Tina Volpe
    http://inslide.com/volpe011709.mp3

  60. clare said

    Darwin supported vivisection! The above poster is ill-informed.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5711912.ece

  61. Matt said

    Just a few comments:

    1. PETA, in recent years, has had a 97% kill rate (we know this because of their own documentation) of precious souls who came into their “care”.
    If you have a 97% murder rate of animals, you cannot call yourselves an “animal rights” group.
    As soon as we stop supporting PETA and their murderous ways, we will be able to decrease the number of precious lives lost.

    PETA are frauds.

    The HSUS….a mystery wrapped inside of an enigma.
    One minute they are lobbying to murder animals in places deceptively called “shelters” (they are, in fact death camps), the next, they show indications of agreeing that we should be a no-kill nation.

    Talk is cheap.
    Actions matter.

    Is the HSUS “humane”?

    We’ll see.

    Murder is not humane.

    Animals are not property.

    That some morons consider them as “property” doesnt matter……. animals are living, breathing, feeling, loving, soul-filled Children of God, just like the rest of us.

    Blacks were once chained in the basement. Not anymore.

    Women were once relegated to the kitchen.
    Not anymore.

    Animals are now considered as being “less important”, just like blacks and women once were.

    Someday, we will be able to say those words: Not anymore.

  62. F.C. said

    An excellent piece on pacifism…

    http://www.insurgentdesire.org.uk/hti.htm

  63. [...] penned two critiques of Lee Hall’s work and her attacks on the MDA movement in the UK and US (see “Pacifism or Animals: Which Do You Love More?” and “Averting the China Syndrome: Response to Our Critics and the Devotees of Fundamentalist [...]

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